There's a hill in my Battlehorn Courtyard!

[thedmbarlow]

Hi, so I'd appreciate some help with a weird modding issue.

 

 

There appears to be a hill where my Battlehorn Castle's courtyard should be. Walls and everything are there, but there's no way into the castle and the smithy is probably 15-20 feet underground, though the stable and gate are accessible. Please help!

 

Here's my modlist, copied from LOOT:

Oblivion.esm  
CM Partners.esm

2 2 Imperial Museum 1_2.esm

3 3 Cobl Main.esm

4 4 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm

5 5 Jog_X_Mod.esm

6 6 Windfall.esm

7 7 bookplacing.esm

8 8 Armamentarium.esm

9 9 Fort_Cooper.esm

10 a Artifacts.esm

11 b MD_Saddle_Master.esm

12 c Knights - Revelation.esm

13 d Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp

14 e DLCShiveringIsles.esp

15 f Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp

16 10 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp

17 11 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp

18 12 DLCThievesDen.esp

19 13 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp

20 14 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp

21 15 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

22 16 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp

23 17 DLCVileLair.esp

24 18 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp

25 19 DLCHorseArmor.esp

26 1a DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp

27 1b DLCOrrery.esp

28 1c DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp

29 1d DLCSpellTomes.esp

30 1e DLCFrostcrag.esp

31 1f DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp

32 20 Knights.esp

33 21 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp

34 22 P1DkeyChain.esp

35 23 AdrenalineOblivion-SpawnElement.esp

36 24 Quest Award Leveller.esp

37 25 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp

38 26 Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp

39 27 Uncapped Blivvy UHM.esp

40 28 Windfall.esp

41 29 Better Dungeons.esp

42 2a ReclaimSancreTor.esp

43 2b HoarfrostCastle.esp

44 2c The Lost Spires.esp

45 2d Kvatch Rebuilt.esp

46 2e Diverse Dungeons - Intense Color v.1.05.esp

47 2f Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp

48 30 2nd to 1st person.esp

49 31 BattlehornCastleEnhanced.esp

50 32 AdrenalineOblivion-SupportElements.esp

51 33 Realistic Hatred.esp

52 34 Tiber Septim Hotel.esp

53 35 Sunlit Interiors 1.31.esp

54 36 Kragenir's Death Quest.esp

55 37 Knights - Revelation.esp

56 38 Cobl Races.esp

57 39 AnvilBayExpansion.esp

58 3a LetThePeopleDrink.esp

59 3b Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp

60 3c BHC_Expanded.esp

61 3d EverHaus3.esp

62 3e House of Healing at Weye.esp

63 3f 007s_DragonfireTradeAndTransport.esp

64 40 First Edition.esp

65 41 Mages Guild Quests.esp

66 42 The Ayleid Steps.esp

67 43 MomosHarborExpandedDV.esp

68 44 MomosHarborExpandedEV.esp

69 45 MannimarcoRevisited.esp

70 46 Cobl Glue.esp

71 47 SoT_TheOrderofNibenay.esp

72 48 Divine EleganceEnglishV.esp

73 49 The Gilded Carafe.esp

74 4a ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp

75 4b 300_White Stallion 4.esp

76 4c GoldenCrest.esp

77 4d PinePeakLodge.esp

78 4e Fighters Guild Quests.esp

79 4f Enchanced Cloud Ruler Temple Armory.esp

80 50 Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp

81 51 Deadra_Monastary.esp

82 52 Reworked Posts.esp

83 53 CapesandCloaks.esp

84 54 Malevolent.esp

85 55 eeks Smithing Mod.esp

86 56 Choices and Consequences.esp

87 57 Oblivion Gate Map Marker Remover.esp

88 58 Immersive Weapons.esp

89 59 CRTRenewed.esp

90 5a bladesfactionmod.esp

91 5b BrotherhoodRenewed.esp

92 5c 24HrArenaAliveV2.esp

93 5d 24HrArenaAliveV2Towers.esp

94 5e Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp

95 5f 0WeynonPrioryAlive.esp

96 60 DaedraShrinesProddedWithAStick.esp

97 61 thievery.esp

98 62 EC Chambers new.esp

99 63 BXX_Mines.esp

100 64 Golden Perch Inn.esp

101 65 Wine Overhaul.esp

102 66 HackdirtAlive.esp

103 67 Wayshrine_Redesign.esp

104 68 Red Diamond Jewerly.esp

105 69 Imperial Horse Armor.esp

106 6a db_sanctuary_one-room.esp

107 6b Skyrimized Water HD BLUE eng.esp

108 6c WarriorBandages_V2.0.esp

109 6d SFTempleRebuild.esp

110 6e Cellars of Oblivion.esp

111 6f ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp

112 70 Enhanced Economy.esp

113 71 Artifacts.esp

114 72 CM Partners.esp

115 73 CM Partners More NPCs.esp

116 74 Bravil Docks.esp

117 75 DisplayHousejm.esp

118 76 Bit and Bridle Restored.esp

119 77 Kragenir'sDeathQuest-RSTpatch.esp

120 78 Reznod_Mannequin.esp

121 79 Kings Beacon.esp

122 7a Cliff's Shacks Basements-Radiant AI.esp

123 7b MerryBellInn.esp

124 7c HouseMapMarkersOnlyBought.esp

125 7d Packhorses v1.esp

126 7e SleepyCatInn.esp

127 7f Populated Prisons.esp

128 80 Fort_Cooper.esp

129 81 Waterfront Trade Headquarters.esp

130 82 CM Partners NPC.esp

131 83 Vvardenfell_Imports.esp

132 84 KnightlyArmory.esp

133 85 Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp

134 86 Elz - Realistic Gravity.esp

135 87 ChapelsOfCyrodiilLOD.esp

136 88 RshAlchemy.esp

137 89 P1DseeYouSleep.esp

138 8a RshAlchemyRecipes.esp

139 8b Sexlivion_0.4a_Full_English_v1.esp

140 8c SingingStablehandInn.esp

141 8d za_bankmod.esp

142 8e DropLitTorchOBSE.esp

143 8f CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp

144 90 KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp

145 91 CM Partners Marker NPCs.esp

146 92 Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp

147 93 WhiteGoldTower_Telepad.esp

148 94 One Stop Armors.esp

149 95 Playable Imperial Watch Armour.esp

150 96 Choices and Consequences - SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp

151 97 Nine Divines Vestments.esp

152 98 Cloudruler_overhauled.esp

153 99 Camping.esp

154 9a Labyrinth.esp

155 9b CM Partners Special NPCs.esp

156 9c Bleakers Cavern.esp

157 9d KragenirsDeathQuest-LostCoast patch.esp

158 9e Arena Armory.esp

159 9f ImperialWarehouse.esp

160 a0 GlarthSecretBeta02.esp

161 a1 Pale Pass Barracks.esp

162 a2 PCSoundBorrodin.esp

163 a3 GuildAdvancement.esp

164 a4 Dude Wheres My Horse.esp

165 a5 300_Lore Dialogue.esp

166 a6 GoldCoinBagger.esp

167 a7 MiscTracker.esp

168 a8 Cathedral Improver.esp

169 a9 Imperial Museum 2_2.esp

170 aa mrSiikas_TheEmperorsTomb.esp

171 ab RICHARD temple.esp

172 ac The Treasure House.esp

173 ad Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp

174 ae FrostcragRebornCobl.esp

175 af paladin.esp

176 b0 S.P.A.M. 100+.esp

177 b1 KragenirsDeathQuest-LetThePeopleDrink patch.esp

178 b2 Choices and Consequences - OOO.esp

179 b3 MannimarcoWardrobeChest.esp

180 b4 P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp

181 b5 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

</spoiler>

As you can see, I have quite a number of mods. This setup however, appears to work A-OK for the most part. I got my character through all of Windfall's two story questlines without any incompatibility issues, for example.

I am not sufficiently technically inclined to know how to dive into the mods themselves and find out what the hell is putting a hill there, but I don't get any major errors in LOOT or anything like that.

Please help!

[Striker879]

What happens when you sort your load order with BOSS (the recommended tool for Oblivion load orders)?

[thedmbarlow]

What happens when you sort your load order with BOSS (the recommended tool for Oblivion load orders)?

 

I've been using LOOT. I'll go download BOSS and find out!

 

EDIT:

 

So... problem. MO doesn't like BOSS (is there no 32-bit version?) and when run separately (presumably because of the way MO segregates things) none of my mods show up. Is there a way around this?

Edited January 1, 2017 by thedmbarlow

[Striker879]

Hmm ... I'm an old WinXP dinosaur (and a 32 bit one to boot) ... far as I know the version 2.3.2 download (top link on that page I linked) is 32 bit. Pretty sure if I tried stuffing something 64 bit down XP's throat I'd hear about it.

 

The only Mod Organizer type I know is Contrathetix and I know that Contra uses manual load order sorting so I'm not hopeful that any advice will be coming from that quarter.

 

It will be a bit tedious but you can use the BOSS masterlist (downloaded from BOSS Masterlist for Oblivion) and trusty old Notepad to manually do a "BOSS sort" (providing you have a mod manager that will allow you to manually change load order).

 

What you'd do is download the most recent masterlist to a folder and extract it to that same folder. The extracted download is simply a folder with the date of the masterlist and a text file named masterlist.txt inside that folder. You would then use Notepad's Edit menu Find to search for ESPs you suspect may be conflicting with DLCBattlehornCastle.esp and/or BattlehornCastleEnhanced.esp (e.g. let's compare to KnightlyArmory.esp).

 

Open three instances of masterlist.txt and position the windows so they are one right on top of the other. In the first put DLCBattlehornCastle.esp in the Find entry box and hit Find Next. That will highlight DLCBattlehornCastle.esp in that instance of the masterlist. Next in the second instance of masterlist.txt search for BattlehornCastleEnhanced.esp and compare to the first to confirm that BOSS agrees with LOOT that BattlehornCastleEnhanced.esp should be lower than DLCBattlehornCastle.esp (which I'm certain it will). In the third instance of masterlist.txt search for KnightlyArmory.esp and compare the BOSS recommendation vs the other two ESPs.

 

The reason I use three instances of the masterlist (or more if you want) is if you put the windows exactly over one another and then cycle thru each instance after you have searched you can watch the scroll bar position to see whether BOSS says a mod should be above or below another in the load order (you'll see it jump up or down when switching windows).

 

Like many things, takes far longer to explain than to do.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Striker879

[thedmbarlow]

I'm pretty sure that the 'Contrathetix' MO is not the one I have, sadly. Not unless that indivudal also goes by 'Tannin'? http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/1334/?

 

(You may notice a pattern here - yes, I made an effort to streamline my modding applications between Oblivion and Skyrim a while back).

 

And I don't think this one allows manual sorting, either. There are no GUI buttons or right-click actions for that - that I am seeing, at least.

[Striker879]

No Contrathetix is another mod user/mod author who happens to use Mod Organizer and has learned a lot about how to use it properly.

 

Unfortunately, as you are finding, what works well for Skyrim doesn't necessarily work well for Oblivion. For one thing, a lot of the "must have" mods for Oblivion were created and last updated long long long before Skyrim was more than an idea of a concept. To get those tools that work so well in Skyrim to work at all in Oblivion takes knowledge of Oblivion and study and skill at bending them to the new task. The ones that just work straight out of the box without a hitch are few and far between.

 

I my opinion modding Oblivion is as much an art, learned through experience and careful investigation, as it is a learned skill. You can follow a hundred tutorials/explanations but until you make some mistakes and figure things out (albeit sometimes with help) you won't understand what's going on.

 

Load order is simply time/date stamps on files ... a kludgey solution would be to use a tool like File date Changer to manually change file timestamps to get the load order you want ... not something I'd suggest as anything except a troubleshooting tool.

 

- Edit - BOSS has a tool named User Rules that allows you to change where it sorts mods that you set up a rule for. Does LOOT offer any similar tool for overriding it's automatic sort?

Edited January 2, 2017 by Striker879

[thedmbarlow]

Yes it does. Basically the same thing.

[Surilindur]

Happy new year! First of all, I am nothing special, just another ordinary person trying out new things. Well, close to ordinary on the awkward side, a bit below average, maybe somewhat eccentric and overall incapable of handling social situations. But none of you will ever need to know that, being on the Internet, with the anonymity allowed by the Internet and all that... :whistling:

 

And just out of curiosity I downloaded LOOT and ran it, and it actually works! Well, as in, it works as advertised, according to the frequently asked questions of it: https://loot.github.io/docs/help/LOOT-FAQs.html

 

Come to think of it, maybe if someone migrated the current BOSS masterlist to LOOT (however that may work :wacko: ), then maybe all sorts of BOSS vs LOOT things could be forgotten. LOOT does not really look all that bad, and I am not sure why it is considered better to keep updating a masterlist for something ancient instead of updating it for the latest utility.

 

About your load order: if I remember correctly, the Golden Crest mod thingy modifies the same area as Battlehorn Castle. It adds something close to the castle, so maybe it is the one that causes that hill to appear? Have you tried moving the Golden Crest mod above that Battlehorn Castle mod you are using, to see if it helps? If it does not help, then maybe it is something else.

 

Oh and Striker: using Mod Organizer is not really that difficult. All the people with issues using it just make it sound like as if it were. Of course it might require a bit more work and thinking, but I would say it makes managing mods more easy than ever. Hopefully, now that the developer of MO (Tannin) joined the Nexus, we will one day have something great to install mods with - assuming they manage to keep the advanced features of MO. Otherwise there will be lots of disappointed people. :D

 

Hopefully that helps a bit.

 

Edit: Typos... :facepalm:

Edited January 3, 2017 by Contrathetix

[Striker879]

Ordinary in your own mind perhaps ... a fairly common trait known as self depreciation. Don't worry, those who do not have at least a little of it are insufferable to be around.

 

My understanding was that LOOT worked strictly on a rules based system, whereas BOSS uses an actual list that hand places ESPs according to user's experience, which may be also influenced by certain rules (like all quest mods should go here, after this type of mod ... whatever type of mods should come before quests, I dunno).

 

Keep trying on the MO thing Contra. You never know, lightning may strike and you'll succeed in converting this manual install dinosaur (and watch what happens then ... when nobody is looking I'll still install some mods manually, just because I can).

[Surilindur]

LOOT looks like a complete replacement to BOSS. Maybe if someone one day ports the masterlist and continues maintaining it for LOOT, then maybe that one day BOSS could finally be able to retire. If I remember correctly, some high profile mod authors have stated how BOSS is obsolete and LOOT should be used. On the other hand, mhahn123 maintaining the BOSS masterlist has done a great job of keeping BOSS relevant for Oblivion, probably the greatest reason why someone still recommends it. I think. I have indeed been a manual sorting person since the beginning, be it good or bad. I like my load order pretty to look at. It is also tiny enough for manual sorting. :blush:

 

As for MO: I would not tell you to try it anymore. Now that Tannin works for the Nexus, maybe, assuming the new NMM (someone suggested NeMO which sounds great - I am a huge Jules Verne fan) has all the relevant features of MO like true virtual installs and and like, then maybe I will try to convince you to try that one. But not yet. Time will tell. I really really hope they will manage to make the new manager in a way that pleases people who love MO. I will be very very disappointed if they decide to exclude some key features (in my opinion, key features...) from it. It is like waiting for Christmas, now knowing whether one will get a shiny new mechanised potato cooking device or just some ordinary potato peeler. :ermm:

Edited January 3, 2017 by Contrathetix