Lachdonin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And where the fck does the ppl get the idea that the Empire will get on their feet? All i hear from the imperials is "We're going after the thalmor... any moment now... wait for it... waaaaaait for it..." They WONT be able to recover by having the thalmor doing business right on their houses. A thalmor official could grope the Emperor's ass and he wouldnt be able to do nothing bout it. You can't make judgement statements on the claims of the Empire without applying the same critical degree to the Stormcloaks. I have yet to see a Stormcloak kill a Thalmor agent. Anywhere. Hell, the Jarl of Winterhold has a problem with mages living next door, but doesn't even care about the Thalmor there. All the while the Stormcloaks go on about "We'll drive the Thalmor out of Skyrim". If you claim the Empire is just making statements, you have to make the same judgement about the Stormcloaks, because both are guilty of the same innactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halororor Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Oh yeah? Since when "keeping the Thalmor out of skyrim" is letting them to walk around, kidnapping and torturing your ppl as they please? Get Ulfric to high king and the Thalmor wont even be able to put a foot on Skyrim. And where the fck does the ppl get the idea that the Empire will get on their feet? All i hear from the imperials is "We're going after the thalmor... any moment now... wait for it... waaaaaait for it..." They WONT be able to recover by having the thalmor doing business right on their houses. A thalmor official could grope the Emperor's ass and he wouldnt be able to do nothing bout it. No offense, but please, if you don't know what you're talking about, rather say nothing at all. The White-Gold Concordat is keeping the Thalmor from simply overrunning the Empire. Sure, they can do it at any time, but at the time in which the game takes place, breaking the Concordat isn't in the Thalmor's interest. And 'Get Ulfric to high king and the Thalmor wont even be able to put a foot on Skyrim.'? Are you being serious? The war is weakening both the Stormcloaks and the imperials. If the Stormcloaks win, their troops will be spread rather thinly and it would still take time to get the province and its military in order. It's not like they'd win the war today, and tomorrow every hold has a garrison big enough to fend off a Thalmor army. :/ The empire is the Thalmor's puppet, yes, but while the Empire stands there is at least a slim hope that the Thalmor can one day be defeated. While Skyrim is in Empire hands, the Thalmor can't do anything to Skyrim's residents. Remove the empire, and the entire weight of the Thalmor army comes crashing down on top of Skyrim. I doubt even Ulfric has an army big enough to withstand that. The best thing anyone can do is to join forces with the Empire, because the stronger the empire is, the bigger the chances that they can someday remove the Thalmor threat entirely. If Ulfric had any brains, he would have formed an alliance with the empire. One strong force is a lot harder to subdue than two smaller forces that are fighting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The empire is the Thalmor's puppet, yes, but while the Empire stands there is at least a slim hope that the Thalmor can one day be defeated. I wouldn't even say this. The Empire has taken on a station of appeasement, and upholding the contractual obligations of their end of the White Gold Concordant. They are required by the treaty to prevent the worship of Talos. They didn't do this for years, then Ulfric kicked up a stink and called attention to the fact that the Empire never really stoped the worship of Talos. Even then, the Empire skirted by their obligations by letting the Thalmor enforce it, rather than doing it themselves. The Thalmor have little to know legislative control of the Empire, nor do they have absolute free-reign within Imperial borders. The stance the Empire has taken is similar to that of many of the Allied powers in regards to the Soviet Union. And then, later, in regards to the American witch (communist) hunts. That doesn't make them a puppet, and if anything indicates an unwillingness to enforce their own end of the treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehungry Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Wood elves ftw Edited January 11, 2012 by mehungry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faifh Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ulfric is the only one in a good position to actually unite what was left of the old Empire. How should a racist unite anything but his own race, other than possible submission, and he cant force all the empire just being nords. Everyone non-nord is only half a human to Ulfric and the Stormcloacks (except as honorable exception Free-Winter) and the non-human races like argonians may not even enter the city? And its more often hinted at, Ulfric and his man don't care a damm about non-nords. So you can control all of an empire only with so many nords. And it won't help much against a bigger foe anyway. Albeit its true the empire is the only chance against the thalmor, I take a little offence people are judging their choice soley by "who puts in more order" and who "kills of the enemy" more effectively, thats just the argument the facist factions work themselves (aka stormcloacks in this game). It should be, who gives more damm of liberty, human rights, etc. Yes, the empire isn't a shining example as well, but at least they are multi-cultural and respect all races just the same, and judge and individual by his or her actions instead of the color of his/her skin or fur or scales, and thus are able to form a larger entity like an empire at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minngarm Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well role playing dovahkiin your first serious encounter is the initial dragon attack, where Mrs imperial says f*** it kill the guy we dont know anything about, and Mr Imperial says "sorry bro" So based solely on that encounter, it is perfectly justifiable and agreeable to avoid or even loath the Empire at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well role playing dovahkiin your first serious encounter is the initial dragon attack, where Mrs imperial says f*** it kill the guy we dont know anything about, and Mr Imperial says "sorry bro" So based solely on that encounter, it is perfectly justifiable and agreeable to avoid or even loath the Empire at this point. The irony of that statement, considering i'm sitting in a class on the theory of knowlege and we're talking about the value of justifications... Anyway, as i said, we as external viewers are given an absurdly incomplete image of whats going on. We have only the most vague explination of WHY you were arrested, and what circumstances have brought you there. For all we know the PC is a serial killer fleeing from Cyrodiil. Because of the incomplete nature of the information, while, yes, you can justify a hatred for the Empire under the circumstances, you can't make a good justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithofdoom Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) i would side with the imperials because the stormcloaks SPOILER replace Balgruuf and his lot who are awesome and i like a lot, with Vignar and the grey haired "strong nord woman" (as she puts it) SPOILER END. Other than that your actions dont really have a consequence on wether the Thalmor do something in the actual game, but if we were to inmerse ourselves in the game world i would say Ulfric is not the hero he appears to be, he does respect nord traditions but he is a double faced man who just wants political power, and the thalmor would destroy Skyrim if the empire wasnt there, they would also destroy the empire because it would be weakened, so what are you left with ? 10 or 20 years of Ulfric running the goold old Nord skyrim, and then a Tamriel ruled by the Thalmor and men would be slaves if not killed. So yeah i would go with the Empire. Other than that be wary that ingame the cities you attack are left with "scars" of the battle, so if you want your cities pretty i would suggest just dont start the civil war, lol. Edited January 11, 2012 by Wraithofdoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoWarrior14 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How can anyone choose the option of joining the Imperial side? They *were* just about to cut your head off in the beginning, right? And if it hadn't been for the dragon putting in an appearance, they *would have* cut your head off, n'est-ce pas? It's a bit like the option of betraying Mr House in Fallout New Vegas, after he and his robot saved your life at the beginning of the game. What do you think about that? Shouldn't you be *against* the enemy, rather than helping them?So, Skyrim your first elder scrolls game huh? Both sides are just as bad as one another. Read up on some lore before you make arrogant statements like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoofSquared Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I chose Ulfric as I thought Skyrim would give me the choice to go double agent, and then stab both sides to the back becoming myself the king of Skyrim, establishing order, allying with the Empire by reasoning, and then lead the war against Thalmor. But uhh.. Yeah.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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