[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[MofoMojo]

Just to clarify...So for speed multipliers, you can't have one value for walking (so you can move at a realistic pace), and another separate multiplier for when you use sprint? You know, so you can both sprint very fast but not look like you're freaking out if you choose to walk.

 

No you absolutely can (and we do) have seperate modifiers. Right now you ONLY get the speed bonus when sprinting. When walking around you're at completely normal speed. It only kicks in on sprinting. So by reading your description it seems we're already doing what you might be asking for? Or, my 4 hours of sleep didn't help much. :)

 

-MM

[yota71]

generally i hate the vampire faction, but with this mod i can really consider, with a new game, when your mod is finished to become a vampire :)

 

Nice work, kodos for you :)

[MofoMojo]

generally i hate the vampire faction, but with this mod i can really consider, with a new game, when your mod is finished to become a vampire :)

 

Nice work, kodos for you :)

 

Thanks Yota71!

 

So going back to our notes, Progenitor's were supposed to:

 

"Double cast telekinesis to have summoned weapon mimic your attacks for a minute, does nothing if not a weapon"

 

This was the basis for my conjuring a weapon POC. So, I can't think of a way to modify Telekenesis to have this behavior on a double cast, so what I might do...again if I can figure out how to know when you're dual casting, I'll see if I can create a new Telekenisis that when you DUAL CAST on a weapon basically creates my invisible NPC fighter, and gives them the weapon you cast it on basically mimicking that behavior.

 

Also, don't get your hopes up for having this in the beta release but I started wiring up the necessary stuff for "Siring" vampires. The way I'm doing this right now is keeping track of the last victim you fed on. If you feed on them three times, I'll then add them to a "Sire" alias that will....theoretically... have AI packages to adjust sleep schedules and things. I'm not sure how all that is going to work. If you feed on a different victim before the third time, I stop keeping track of that victim. Don't worry, Feed Attacks don't get considered for this. It's only when you feed while you and the victim aren't in combat, and only if the victim doesn't die, that I keep track of the last victim.

 

The basic hookup only supports 1 sireling right now and theirs absolutely no AI package on the sireling. Like I said, just wiring it up for support. I might allow it just desginate a "follower" for now.

 

-MM

[phil11]

Just to clarify...So for speed multipliers, you can't have one value for walking (so you can move at a realistic pace), and another separate multiplier for when you use sprint? You know, so you can both sprint very fast but not look like you're freaking out if you choose to walk.

 

No you absolutely can (and we do) have seperate modifiers. Right now you ONLY get the speed bonus when sprinting. When walking around you're at completely normal speed. It only kicks in on sprinting. So by reading your description it seems we're already doing what you might be asking for? Or, my 4 hours of sleep didn't help much. :)

 

-MM

Okay, awesome. I thought when you said speed multipliers were in GameSettings that it applied globally regardless of what you were doing. Good to know. But get a good night's sleep! lol

 

As far as Vampire Speed goes, though, that is a separate issue from basic speed multipliers. I tried to explain the issue I saw with it as best as I could, but I didn't do a good enough job I guess, lol. When I saw others saying that they thought the speed multipliers for Vampire Sprint were too slow, I somewhat agreed. Then you replied that Vampire Sprint should be used in conjuction with Vampire Speed to attain true maximum velocity, and I also agreed. However, it dawned on me that based on your explanation, travelling, e.g. a long run from, say, Riften to Solitude, would be unnecessarily tedious due to the slowing of time while using those abilities together. Even though Vampire Speed, as it currently functions, is supposed to simulate your Vampire having insane reflexes and reaction time (like Spiderman's spider-sense), it means that you experience time slower so that it could still take 20+ minutes of real time (time in real life, outside of the game) to actually get somewhere- and for a Vampire, that seems too long. So I proposed that the Vampire Speed ability function in such a way that it could turn off the slow-time effect when outside of battle (either automatically or by hotkey) and instead apply a speed multiplier that would mimic how fast you were supposed to be moving when slow time was in effect.

 

If time was only advancing at 50% of it's normal value, and someone ran 20mph, then in actuality that is the same as if a person ran 40mph when time is at 100%. Right? So for a vampire, since they experience time slower when they use Vampire Speed, an in-game minute is much longer than it is for a bystander, who experiences time at its normal value. And while Vampires (using Vampire Speed) experience their own movement to be of average speed, that same bystander might see nothing but a blur of frenetic movement when observing them.

 

Outside of battle, the slow-time effect for Vampire Speed isn't really necessary IMHO. I mean, what do we need to simulate high reactions for? I don't see a reason to force the vampire player to experience time so slowly, eating up a player's 'real life' minutes. So instead of seeing themselves move at, for example, 20mph due to the slow-time effect of using Vampire Speed, they see themselves move at 40mph, the speed which a bystander would see if he/she observed you. This way, when you combine Vampire Sprint and Vampire Speed outside of battle (or merely when Vamp speed has slow time hotkeyed to be off), you actually see your player cover ground extremely quickly.

 

 

I hope that was more clear.

Edited March 15, 2012 by phil11

[phil11]

wtf* double post? Edited March 15, 2012 by phil11

[deama]

Just to clarify...So for speed multipliers, you can't have one value for walking (so you can move at a realistic pace), and another separate multiplier for when you use sprint? You know, so you can both sprint very fast but not look like you're freaking out if you choose to walk.

 

No you absolutely can (and we do) have seperate modifiers. Right now you ONLY get the speed bonus when sprinting. When walking around you're at completely normal speed. It only kicks in on sprinting. So by reading your description it seems we're already doing what you might be asking for? Or, my 4 hours of sleep didn't help much. :)

 

-MM

Okay, awesome. I thought when you said speed multipliers were in GameSettings that it applied globally regardless of what you were doing. Good to know. But get a good night's sleep! lol

 

As far as Vampire Speed goes, though, that is a separate issue from basic speed multipliers. I tried to explain the issue I saw with it as best as I could, but I didn't do a good enough job I guess, lol. When I saw others saying that they thought the speed multipliers for Vampire Sprint were too slow, I somewhat agreed. Then you replied that Vampire Sprint should be used in conjuction with Vampire Speed to attain true maximum velocity, and I also agreed. However, it dawned on me that based on your explanation, travelling, e.g. a long run from, say, Riften to Solitude, would be unnecessarily tedious due to the slowing of time while using those abilities together. Even though Vampire Speed, as it currently functions, is supposed to simulate your Vampire having insane reflexes and reaction time (like Spiderman's spider-sense), it means that you experience time slower so that it could still take 20+ minutes of real time (time in real life, outside of the game) to actually get somewhere- and for a Vampire, that seems too long. So I proposed that the Vampire Speed ability function in such a way that it could turn off the slow-time effect when outside of battle (either automatically or by hotkey) and instead apply a speed multiplier that would mimic how fast you were supposed to be moving when slow time was in effect.

 

If time was only advancing at 50% of it's normal value, and someone ran 20mph, then in actuality that is the same as if a person ran 40mph when time is at 100%. Right? So for a vampire, since they experience time slower when they use Vampire Speed, an in-game minute is much longer than it is for a bystander, who experiences time at its normal value. And while Vampires (using Vampire Speed) experience their own movement to be of average speed, that same bystander might see nothing but a blur of frenetic movement when observing them.

 

Outside of battle, the slow-time effect for Vampire Speed isn't really necessary IMHO. I mean, what do we need to simulate high reactions for? I don't see a reason to force the vampire player to experience time so slowly, eating up a player's 'real life' minutes. So instead of seeing themselves move at, for example, 20mph due to the slow-time effect of using Vampire Speed, they see themselves move at 40mph, the speed which a bystander would see if he/she observed you. This way, when you combine Vampire Sprint and Vampire Speed outside of battle (or merely when Vamp speed has slow time hotkeyed to be off), you actually see your player cover ground extremely quickly.

 

 

I hope that was more clear.

 

 

I get it!

 

You just want to temporarily remove the slow-time bit of the ability and increase the speed by the amount the slow-time effect does whenever your not in combat.

E.G when that time-slow thing slows time by 50%, then out of combat one would move 50% faster, on top of all the other effects (including that green vampire speed thing)

Edited March 15, 2012 by deama

[Darksun45230]

You just want to temporarily remove the slow-time bit of the ability and increase the speed by the amount the slow-time effect does whenever your not in combat.

E.G when that time-slow thing slows time by 50%, then out of combat one would move 50% faster, on top of all the other effects (including that green vampire speed thing)

Like taking the breaks off a car, brilliant!

 

Wait, I may have gotten that wrong...

[MofoMojo]

 

I get it!

 

You just want to temporarily remove the slow-time bit of the ability and increase the speed by the amount the slow-time effect does whenever your not in combat.

E.G when that time-slow thing slows time by 50%, then out of combat one would move 50% faster, on top of all the other effects (including that green vampire speed thing)

 

Ahhh. I finally get it too. Ok I understand what you mean. The vampire's speed doesn't even adjust speed multipliers just time, so it has no bearing. Yeah....if you slow down time only...it'll still take the player the same AMOUNT of REALTIME to get from point A to point B. Just GAMETIME is different.

 

So you want "Vampire's Speed" to be somewhat conditional. I.e. I don't want to JUST disable slow time if your not in combat, primarily because I like to engage some combatants before I'm "InCombat". Trying to think of an alternative without this getting too crazy.

 

What if this is the condition for "Vampire's Speed"

 

When the spell is cast

• 
   
  
• If PlayerIsSprinting - Apply additional SpeedMultiplier
  
• If PlayerIsNotSprinting - Apply Slow Time Effect
  

 

Vampire's Sprint is passive so it'll always kick in and it just burns up stamina at the same rate that normal sprinting does. If you cast Vampire's Speed when NOT sprinting you slow down time, can run, sprint, walk, whatever.... If you cast Vampire's Speed WHILE SPRINTING, it just increases your speed multiplier even more.

 

We might be making it a bit more complicated and less intuitive doing that rather than just having an alternate spell, but I'd rather reduce spell juggling as you guys have pointed out could be a problem.

 

UPDATE:

I have figured out how to determine when a user is dualcasting and have created alternate version of the summon weapon POC. I need to figure out how to force the summoned "Invisible" NPC to use dual weapons but as it stands dual casting the spell now works. Lunch time Creation Kit work can be productive at times! :)

 

As it is right now, when you single cast you get a Steel War Axe. Dual Cast and you get a War Hammer. Hey, it's just a POC. :)

 

-MM

[Jakisthe]

Heh...great idea for the vampire speed stuff, guys! Makes me annoyed that I'm never here for the brainstorming sessions...I always have class around this time. Or finals, as the case has been :wallbash:

 

MM, is that upon dual-casting the normal conjure spell? Or are those..unalterable. The reason why I attached those properties to dual casting instead of just making a new spell was to leave the original ability (telekinesis or weapon conjuring), while allowing for the vampire specific bonus (magic floating weapon!) from the unused-dual cast for those two, and also cutting down on the number of spells people have to contend with.

 

Of course, it might just not be possible, so...I should really try to look into the CK more to see what kind of conditions are possible.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Jakisthe

[phil11]

I get it!

 

You just want to temporarily remove the slow-time bit of the ability and increase the speed by the amount the slow-time effect does whenever your not in combat.

E.G when that time-slow thing slows time by 50%, then out of combat one would move 50% faster, on top of all the other effects (including that green vampire speed thing)

You get the concept, but your numbers are off. If you go 10 mph when time is at half speed, then when time is at full speed you'd go 20 mph. So you'd move 100% faster, not 50%. ;)

 

Ahhh. I finally get it too. Ok I understand what you mean. The vampire's speed doesn't even adjust speed multipliers just time, so it has no bearing.

It doesn't? I'm confused how the slow time thing even works then. I thought when it is cast, everything is slowed, but your player isn't quite as slowed as everything else, giving you a speed advantage. For a Vampire, it seems there should be some small speed multiplier in addition to the slow time then to simulate the extraordinary speed and superhuman reflexes they have. I guess it could be way overpowered like that... hmmm.

Yeah....if you slow down time only...it'll still take the player the same AMOUNT of REALTIME to get from point A to point B. Just GAMETIME is different.

 

So you want "Vampire's Speed" to be somewhat conditional. I.e. I don't want to JUST disable slow time if your not in combat, primarily because I like to engage some combatants before I'm "InCombat". Trying to think of an alternative without this getting too crazy.

 

What if this is the condition for "Vampire's Speed"

 

When the spell is cast

• If PlayerIsSprinting - Apply additional SpeedMultiplier
• If PlayerIsNotSprinting - Apply Slow Time Effect

Vampire's Sprint is passive so it'll always kick in and it just burns up stamina at the same rate that normal sprinting does. If you cast Vampire's Speed when NOT sprinting you slow down time, can run, sprint, walk, whatever.... If you cast Vampire's Speed WHILE SPRINTING, it just increases your speed multiplier even more.

 

We might be making it a bit more complicated and less intuitive doing that rather than just having an alternate spell, but I'd rather reduce spell juggling as you guys have pointed out could be a problem.

 

That would work. Or could you make it:

 

When the spell is cast:

• If PlayerIs.... holding down the sprint key- Apply additional SpeedMultiplier
• If PlayerIsNot... holding down the sprint key- Apply Slow Time Effect

lol not sure if that's possible. It sounds like something that could only be done with SKSE. Having the Sprint key modify the spell seems like it would be the ideal way to do it though. I have my sprint input as one of my mouse buttons (M5) for convenience. If I could hold that down and tap Z to use Vamp Speed with the speedmultiplier and press Z by itself for the SlowTime effect, that would be awesome.

 

UPDATE:

I have figured out how to determine when a user is dualcasting and have created alternate version of the summon weapon POC. I need to figure out how to force the summoned "Invisible" NPC to use dual weapons but as it stands dual casting the spell now works. Lunch time Creation Kit work can be productive at times! :)

 

As it is right now, when you single cast you get a Steel War Axe. Dual Cast and you get a War Hammer. Hey, it's just a POC. :)

 

-MM

Sounds very cool!

Edited March 16, 2012 by phil11