[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[Sanbru]

Awesome job, can't wait to see this put to use in game.

 

Yeah, it kind of sucks being a vampire and having no fangs upon which to feed.

 

Agreed. There was a mod in morrowind that sort of fixed that issue. About a minute into this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6c39Y_Lq9A&feature=fvsr

 

I remember some of those mods in that video.

Kinda miss the one where the vampires would burst into fiery skeletons when killed.

[Leeira]

One new thing: A level 1 char could easily suck enough blood to become a Sire without reaching level 2. I think this char would be waaaay overpowered for level 1-15 or whatever. Mabye it would be good a thing to make certain vampire stages require a certan player level.

Speaking of immersion: Vampires get stronger because of sucking blood, yes, but another very important thing is their experience they got over the years of existing. This experience could justify the need to have a certain charakter level (which means a certain expierience).

[deama]

One new thing: A level 1 char could easily suck enough blood to become a Sire without reaching level 2. I think this char would be waaaay overpowered for level 1-15 or whatever. Mabye it would be good a thing to make certain vampire stages require a certan player level.

Speaking of immersion: Vampires get stronger because of sucking blood, yes, but another very important thing is their experience they got over the years of existing. This experience could justify the need to have a certain charakter level (which means a certain expierience).

 

I kind of agree, but I don't really like the idea of you being limited because of your level, the elder scrolls hasn't really been about what your level is, it was more about how many skills and how well you knew them. I would suggest to add a completely new skill into the skill tree, with perks and everything, and sort of like limit it that way.

 

Or you could screw the skill system and pretty much base the power of the vampire by how many times he fed, as well as the age of a vampire. E.g: a vampire that has fed 50 times, and is around 25 (or so) days old would receive the first level of blood rend, or the first level of that slow time mechanic.

 

PS: this reminds me: how would the jumping work? I was thinking on creating another toggle-able ability that works almost the same way as the slow time speed one. One would enable it and jump like 2x times as high, but it would consume stamina (not a lot though).

 

PPS: I was also thinking on increasing the jumping acceleration, right now, if you changed the jump height to about 500, you wouldn't really go that far, even if you sprint. This issue might be fixed if it was used with the slow time speed ability... play-testing....

Edited February 29, 2012 by deama

[MofoMojo]

One new thing: A level 1 char could easily suck enough blood to become a Sire without reaching level 2. I think this char would be waaaay overpowered for level 1-15 or whatever. Mabye it would be good a thing to make certain vampire stages require a certan player level.

Speaking of immersion: Vampires get stronger because of sucking blood, yes, but another very important thing is their experience they got over the years of existing. This experience could justify the need to have a certain charakter level (which means a certain expierience).

 

I kind of agree, but I don't really like the idea of you being limited because of your level, the elder scrolls hasn't really been about what your level is, it was more about how many skills and how well you knew them. I would suggest to add a completely new skill into the skill tree, with perks and everything, and sort of like limit it that way.

 

Oh please don't remind me of skill trees and perks. I've investigated doing this and it was actually my original intent to add a new skill and perk tree for vampirism. Unfortunately that can't be done. Watching the Game Jam got my hopes up only to be dashed again at the discovery that the only way the could implement a new perk tree was to combine sneaking and pickpocketing (or other skills). As you've read, I'm not up for modifying any of the base game for compatibility reasons with other mods. But this would have been my preferable path.

 

Or you could screw the skill system and pretty much base the power of the vampire by how many times he fed, as well as the age of a vampire. E.g: a vampire that has fed 50 times, and is around 25 (or so) days old would receive the first level of blood rend, or the first level of that slow time mechanic.

 

Jakisthe's plans were to limit the feeding based on real time requirements so that you couldn't just "WAIT" and feed, etc,. I think tieing it to level is actually a good idea in some ways. Maybe not say that you have to be level X to be Master, but that you have to have gained X levels from the time you were turned. But then, if you wanted to become a Master and you're level ... 76....that would take a while (of course with the intent to be configurable you could remove that requirement). We should keep this discussion going.

 

PS: this reminds me: how would the jumping work? I was thinking on creating another toggle-able ability that works almost the same way as the slow time speed one. One would enable it and jump like 2x times as high, but it would consume stamina (not a lot though).

 

PPS: I was also thinking on increasing the jumping acceleration, right now, if you changed the jump height to about 500, you wouldn't really go that far, even if you sprint. This issue might be fixed if it was used with the slow time speed ability... play-testing....

 

I will have to discover if there's a way to modify jumping. I didn't think we could do a slow fall spell and then figured out how based on the flying work that's being done in another thread. As it stands, the jump multiplier doesn't seem to work (at least for me) but it might be similar to the Speed multiplier bug where you have to have your inventory updated before the game checks the multiplier. I'll have to test this. But right now, there's simply no jumping bonus in the mod. Just falling damage modifiers. Right now it scales 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 90%.

 

Gotta run!

 

- MM

[Oubliette]

Awesome job, can't wait to see this put to use in game.

 

Yeah, it kind of sucks being a vampire and having no fangs upon which to feed.

 

Agreed. There was a mod in morrowind that sort of fixed that issue. About a minute into this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6c39Y_Lq9A&feature=fvsr

 

That's not Morrowind. That's Oblivion. Iirc Morrowind vamps always had fangs, though they lacked unique faces that matched the PC's.

[phil11]

While the idea of having them as an entirely separate entity is interesting, the way of reproduction, the progression, the in-game lore, and the transmission all seem to suggest that it is a disease. Plus, and although I'm not a doctor and this is obviously not a real condition, I just think it's more likely to contract something which is a mutation than it is to completely switch species...since I think that's impossible (and geneticists out there?)

 

Granted, in TES lore there is a cure for vampirism, which implies that it's strictly a human disease that can be remedied. However, to me the main reason the cure even exists in the game is for balancing purposes, otherwise you could get stuck with the vanilla's pathetic excuse for a vampire, what I'd call a gaming atrocity. And even with mods, in an RPG like Skyrim you want to retain the freedom of choice to renege on vampirism; with my interpretation of Vampirism, that is still totally possible. The way I see it, there is ample vampire literature depicting them as a separate species (like True Blood). I already suspend disbelief in Skyrim when our protagonists are absorbing Dragon Souls, fighting 15 foot trolls, and casting magic. Even within the game's internal consistency, the idea that vampires are a separate species is not mutually exclusive with vampirism being the product of disease or mutation. I thought that was supposed to be the unique thing about vampires. They're the product of a disease spread by venom that causes genetic mutation, changing the victim's chromosomes so drastically that said victim is ultimately a different species. And if such chromosomal change is possible in one direction, a magical rite to change it back is hardly more unbelievable.

 

Anyway, that's my take on it. It won't matter in the end since MM is making deranking configurable, which is terrific.

Edited February 29, 2012 by phil11

[yota71]

On my opinion if you are a vampire you are no more human, a vampire is not a diseased human, its an undead like a dreugr (just more fleshy), and an undead can't live in a city, if you chose this path you have to take it until the harsh end :)

 

and no the vampire is not a good person, is the evil itself :)

Edited February 29, 2012 by yota71

[Leeira]

On my opinion if you are a vampire you are no more human, a vampire is not a diseased human, its an undead like a dreugr (just more flashy), and an undead can't live in a city, if you chose this path you have to take it until the harsh end :)

 

and no the vampire is not a good person, is the evil itself :)

I for one find this vamp=evil thing boring as its just black/white. I prefer Vampire The Masquerade or Requiem, True Blood and things like that. So every vampire may be unique instead of just evil. So a vampire should be able to look human enough to life among them... at least until he gets very old/mighty and looses more and more of his humanity.

[yota71]

I for one find this vamp=evil thing boring as its just black/white. I prefer Vampire The Masquerade or Requiem, True Blood and things like that. So every vampire may be unique instead of just evil. So a vampire should be able to look human enough to life among them... at least until he gets very old/mighty and looses more and more of his humanity.

 

Maybe its black and white, but you feed on the living people, and feeding on living is not a good thing (you can make the vampire more "human" by creating some sort of "potion" that suppress for a short period of time the need of blood but in long term this "potion" will lose his effect, and the urge to feed on living [not animal] will become more, and more strong a good example of this type of potion can be seen in the movie Blade)

 

or maybe, create a totally new race (if its possible) the dampyr (half vampire) that retain the human aspect with the "feat" of the vampire but not as powerfull as the vampire (the anime Vampire Hunter D its a good example)

Edited February 29, 2012 by yota71

[MofoMojo]

Just a quick status update before I have to get dinner ready and then I'll come back and give my personal opinion vs. mod direction vs. everyone else on the whole vampire thing.

 

I got home and quickly changed out the "Vampire's Speed" spell. It now applies at the Risen level with only a 10% slow down. Not very useful, but a sign of things to come. It drains stamina at the same rate as it does for Master, Progenitor and Sire. I then scaled out, increasing by 10% at each level. Master is 20% slow, Progenitor is 30%, and Master is 40%.

 

-MM