[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[Jakisthe]

Hehehehehehehehehehehe...you're right, that does make it more vampiric. FUN!

 

That said...it also does a great job at making the combat completely unfair :unsure:

To start, maybe it's Skyrim applies the time dilator to in-game speed, so the 2 seconds is 2 seconds of game time as opposed to IRL time, but whatever it is, it's a LOT of time to dodge. I can't imagine anyone getting hit with it, and the point wasn't to completely negate power attacks...I assume. The rate that is, I'd try like, 0.5 seconds. To add to that, I'm of the opinion that the player shouldn't move at 100% speed during the slowdown. The way I figure, half of this speed comes from their reflexes (ie, moving fast), and half comes from heightened senses (ie, everyone else moving slow). The player should move half normal, perhaps? That way, you get the speed advantage over opponents, but it's not so much that you can entirely destroy them every time they do a power attack. This, combined with the shorter time, would keep it nice and vampiric, while also not having the combat be a complete steamroll.

EDIT: Seems I can't get duration to be 0.5, but at 1sec and tripled mag to 0.15 it was much...fairer. Nor could I find the "effect on self speed" bit, but oh well.

 

 

For the random #s, it's not a bad idea, but depending on how you want to do the vampire system at all (perk tree or levels), it would need adjusting. For instance, if it's a perk in the sense that we know now, I'd suggest 3 ranks instead of 5 so it remains viable for someone who doesn't want to expend all their levels on it. Something like 30% chance to occur, then 60%, then 87.5% (ie, perfect detection from the front and two sides at 25% each, and half detection from the back at 12.5%).

If you opt for the level system as I had in my original post, I think it could be much more gradual since the changes would occur naturally (0/20%/40%/60%/87.5%)

 

The sunlight fix sounds amazing! If...a bit inelegant. No offense, lol. But, as long as it works, right? I still love the idea of the brightness multiplier coming into play...I hadn't even thought of that!

 

The fall damage thing..how IS fall damage calculated in this game, anyway? Is it purely a function of height? Does it take off a percentage of player health from a certain height, or a certain amount of damage? Is there a damage limit to indicate terminal velocity? Without those, I can't speak much to the potential gameplay impacts of such a modifier :/. Plus, and this is a stupid reason, but I already worked in a "half fall damage" perk into my "eventual" Athletics/Acrobatic tree, so there'd be overlap...at least for me. You can do it! Obviously. It just strikes me as something that a vampire would be able to do....but not to an extreme amount. 25% reduction? I dunno. Like I said, I'd need to see the game's damage formula.

 

Stupid slow CK...

Edited January 26, 2012 by Jakisthe

[macmert]

Can we somehow implement white wolf's masquerade? Maybe cast spells with health instead of magicka... Or maybe every time you feed you get a blood point in order to cast unique vampiric spells, also why seduction and servant spells are once per day? I beliece these should be changed too...

[Jakisthe]

I am hesitant. First, that system is ridiculously complex, seeing as how it's made for LARPing and thus has no need to worry about actor strings, glitches, etc.

 

Secondly, I don't think it's their life force that vampires draw their spell powers from...it's their reserves, in this case magicka. Using health to power, say, enthralling someone, seems more like a blood-mage type ability, which a vampire is not. There's not much IRL lore about vampires being physically weaker after using their powers, but a lot of mention is made about how trying it is mentally (as long as the vampire isn't flat out all powerful to begin with). I know it's admittedly a very clean way of doing things, in that health->abilities->ways to get health, but these are hunters, not dark mages. It's the difference between an archer killing a deer->using a deer leg to bludgeon his next deer to death, and the hunter using arrows. The resource, at least how I've always seen it, has been separate from the goal. Nor should the ability hurt the vampire...it's not like they can use their own lifeforce, blood, to cause some ethereal power. The one instance where I could see the connection is using some lifeforce to resurrect the dead (ie, returning lifeforce)...but, as MM pointed out, that runs kinda close to blood-mage, and was my own awkward means of giving the vampire a weak way of siring someone.

 

Not to say it's a bad idea! Like MM says, ideas are great! I didn't think there was such a thing as a vampire city, but, lo and behold, there was one. Which fits perfectly into my long term goals.

 

The once a day thing...that was my idea for game balance. Servant creation should be risky and not overused, but in lieu of a complex awareness system applied to other NPCs, this is hard to replicate...so I just put a hard cap on it. Seduction, however...well, the speech thing needs focusing since vampires vary considerably in lore in terms of attractiveness, and representing beauty->monster is a tough call...but yeah, I can't think of any reason why Seduction shouldn't be more common. Maybe not free, but...not a spell to be saved.

[MofoMojo]

No time to quote or engage but I did find this resource, invaluable, last night for lore within the TES realm:

 

http://www.imperial-library.info/search/node/vampire

 

Thank you much for the ideas. As for my Vampiric Evasion I think I'll lower the time (2 seconds IS a long time) and introduce the random chance to create levels within the Perk system. Again, this is assuming I can implement a Vampirism Perk tree and skill system which I'm REALLY hoping I can do once the CK is out.

 

-MM

[MofoMojo]

 

The sunlight fix sounds amazing! If...a bit inelegant. No offense, lol. But, as long as it works, right? I still love the idea of the brightness multiplier coming into play...I hadn't even thought of that!

 

 

Oh and just think of the uses.... instead of just checking conditions on light level, etc,. how about...oh.... GetItemCount Garlic > 0? Sorry, can't keep up with who want'ed that easter egg anymore.

 

But basically this provides a frame work to create on/off damage based on anything and without creating the FAST TRAVEL/WAIT/SLEEP problem. Is there garlic in their inventory? Are they holding silver weapons or wearing silver armor (I don't think there is silver armor in the game but...).

 

-MM

[elricshan]

hmm garlic i had a mod in oblivion that had a cool garlic efect. i think it was unholy darkness

[DeadricDamodred]

I know I'll be redoing all the powers and weaknesses. My biggest grip about how they do vampires is the fact that you get stronger the longer you go without blood. I find that to be tremendeously backwards. Considering vampires need blood, it makes way more sense that they would be at their most powerful after having just feed, while getting weaker the longer they go without feeding. So I will, just like I did with Oblivion, go into the script and change all that around so they have all the powers I want them to have after feeding with some weaknesses. Then the longer you go without feeding, the more powers you lose and the more damaging the weaknesses become.

[MofoMojo]

I know I'll be redoing all the powers and weaknesses. My biggest grip about how they do vampires is the fact that you get stronger the longer you go without blood. I find that to be tremendeously backwards. Considering vampires need blood, it makes way more sense that they would be at their most powerful after having just feed, while getting weaker the longer they go without feeding. So I will, just like I did with Oblivion, go into the script and change all that around so they have all the powers I want them to have after feeding with some weaknesses. Then the longer you go without feeding, the more powers you lose and the more damaging the weaknesses become.

 

Agreed, I think this about gripes us all. The script is almost identical in format to what they did for oblivion (based on PEXD decompiling tool). In some senses they should grow stronger, but not mentally. "The Locked Door" from Skyrim (I posted parts of it in this thread) uses a Vampire Ancient which was starved for over a month yet still considered to have the capacity to "turn you into a bloodless hulk" in an instant. I think perhaps as they get starved they should lose their mental prowess, illusion bonuses, etc,. and go into a "Blood Lust" state if you will, of increased strength and speed, while being more susceptible to sunlight or, and this could be VERY interesting, perhaps their FEED ability will kill the victim instantly, rather than leave them alive or at least do a severe amount of damage to them if they aren't already in combat. Hmmmmmm.....

 

I know I keep around Lydia as a female companion for my Vampire character just so I can feed from her (and she can carry like nobody's business). I've also removed the requirement for her to be sleeping and I've removed the child requirement (so you can't feed on kids) but I know if somehow I was starved to the point that I'd kill her if I fed from her, I'd HAVE to consider another victim. I couldn't let my poor Lydia die. OK...I'm implementing that!

 

-MM

Edited January 27, 2012 by MofoMojo

[elricshan]

I know I'll be redoing all the powers and weaknesses. My biggest grip about how they do vampires is the fact that you get stronger the longer you go without blood. I find that to be tremendeously backwards. Considering vampires need blood, it makes way more sense that they would be at their most powerful after having just feed, while getting weaker the longer they go without feeding. So I will, just like I did with Oblivion, go into the script and change all that around so they have all the powers I want them to have after feeding with some weaknesses. Then the longer you go without feeding, the more powers you lose and the more damaging the weaknesses become.

 

Agreed, I think this about gripes us all. The script is almost identical in format to what they did for oblivion (based on PEXD decompiling tool). In some senses they should grow stronger, but not mentally. "The Locked Door" from Skyrim (I posted parts of it in this thread) uses a Vampire Ancient which was starved for over a month yet still considered to have the capacity to "turn you into a bloodless hulk" in an instant. I think perhaps as they get starved they should lose their mental prowess, illusion bonuses, etc,. and go into a "Blood Lust" state if you will, of increased strength and speed, while being more susceptible to sunlight or, and this could be VERY interesting, perhaps their FEED ability will kill the victim instantly, rather than leave them alive or at least do a severe amount of damage to them if they aren't already in combat. Hmmmmmm.....

 

I know I keep around Lydia as a female companion for my Vampire character just so I can feed from her (and she can carry like nobody's business). I've also removed the requirement for her to be sleeping and I've removed the child requirement (so you can't feed on kids) but I know if somehow I was starved to the point that I'd kill her if I fed from her, I'd HAVE to consider another victim. I couldn't let my poor Lydia die. OK...I'm implementing that!

 

-MM

 

 

how about when you feed on the same victom like five times wotout killing it it would turn into a vampire?

[MofoMojo]

I know I'll be redoing all the powers and weaknesses. My biggest grip about how they do vampires is the fact that you get stronger the longer you go without blood. I find that to be tremendeously backwards. Considering vampires need blood, it makes way more sense that they would be at their most powerful after having just feed, while getting weaker the longer they go without feeding. So I will, just like I did with Oblivion, go into the script and change all that around so they have all the powers I want them to have after feeding with some weaknesses. Then the longer you go without feeding, the more powers you lose and the more damaging the weaknesses become.

 

Agreed, I think this about gripes us all. The script is almost identical in format to what they did for oblivion (based on PEXD decompiling tool). In some senses they should grow stronger, but not mentally. "The Locked Door" from Skyrim (I posted parts of it in this thread) uses a Vampire Ancient which was starved for over a month yet still considered to have the capacity to "turn you into a bloodless hulk" in an instant. I think perhaps as they get starved they should lose their mental prowess, illusion bonuses, etc,. and go into a "Blood Lust" state if you will, of increased strength and speed, while being more susceptible to sunlight or, and this could be VERY interesting, perhaps their FEED ability will kill the victim instantly, rather than leave them alive or at least do a severe amount of damage to them if they aren't already in combat. Hmmmmmm.....

 

I know I keep around Lydia as a female companion for my Vampire character just so I can feed from her (and she can carry like nobody's business). I've also removed the requirement for her to be sleeping and I've removed the child requirement (so you can't feed on kids) but I know if somehow I was starved to the point that I'd kill her if I fed from her, I'd HAVE to consider another victim. I couldn't let my poor Lydia die. OK...I'm implementing that!

 

-MM

 

 

how about when you feed on the same victom like five times wotout killing it it would turn into a vampire?

 

Lol...that could be cruel. While in theory I like it, and it would be relatively easy to implement at a base level, what happens afterward? The vampires in the game don't follow the same requirements as the player. They aren't required to feed, etc,. so putting that in adds very little depth to the game if you don't take it farther. Taking it farther _IS_ a difficulty since the vampires in the game don't follow the same requirements that the Player does. Essentially, just being an NPC afflicted with vampirism they get the bonuses and the weaknesses and if added to the right/wrong faction, hated and most likely killed by the first NPC they meet.

 

But, siring (did I just say that word?) a vampire might make for an interesting quest line. I don't know that the depth vs. development time to make the above happen with ANY npc is worth it.

 

-MM