[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[nskin039]

Hopefully, you got my latest message! :thumbsup:

 

I did and thanks!

[MofoMojo]

Wow...it's so quiet around here lately. :) I'm not sure whether that's a good thing, or whether there's a big list of BAD waiting for me somewhere. Lol.

 

So, I've taken a lot of time off these last few days while the Beta is rolling. It's almost been 1 week now and I hope things are running smoothly for everyone. I haven't actually opened an editor or CK since the progression bug was discovered and fixed, until today. I did notice that I never got those suggested fortify carry weight's added in to the Beta so I made those changes today. This is what I've settled on:

 

• 
   
  
• Fledgling 25
  
• Risen 50
  
• Master 75
  
• Progenitor 100
  
• Sire 150
  

 

Alternatively I thought about the following:

 

• 
   
  
• Fledgling 25
  
• Risern 50
  
• Master 100
  
• Progenitor 150
  
• Sire 200
  

 

Not much of a difference, accept a solid 100 bonus for Masters and then a solid 100 bonus to sire's over masters....which gets me thinking... uh oh, not more thinking!!?!?

 

Sires are the current top of the pyramid as far as our vampirism goes. There's nothing that really holds us back from implementing more levels except time and coding but let's forget about that. As it stands, with Sires the way they are....do they feel suffeciently...... stronger than Masters? One thing I've wanted to get nailed (and I personally don't think I've done it yet) is that Sires are worth the investment you've put in to become them and that they feel suffeciently stronger and more capable as a Vampire than the other levels. I think we definitely need more than just the two additional spells, because frankly....conjuring storms just provides you with 3 more additional minutes of sunlight protection. Meh... and Mist form, while fun, doesn't change the dynamic of your dusk to dawn play where I think it really counts.

 

So, am I off the mark here? I ask the beta testers to make sure they at least get some play time in as Sires so they can help out with this. What types of changes do you think we could make to have them really stand out as the Kings of the undead? Or do they play just fine the way they are? Should their strengths be more than just incrementally better than Progenitors as they are, or twice as good?

 

Current thoughts:

Instead of 80% chance of Vampiric evasion they get 95-100%)

Instead of 30% increase in attack damage, spell magnitude, Power attack damage, etc,. they get a 50% increase (Progenitors get 25%)

Instead of having 5 commanded undead followers, they get 6 (Progenitors get 4, Master's 3)

Instead of having only 1 animal ally they get 2 (or +1 over whatever the ally limit is set to...or perhaps their own limit which you can set)

 

They are already stronger just by nature of how we've set them up, but they're incrementally stronger. By that I mean, it's a relatively flat line of increased bonuses from Fledgling all the way to Sire. If fledglings get a 5% bonus of something, Sire's probably get a 25% bonus. I'm thinking perhaps Sires should get twice the bonus that Master's have. So instead of 5,10,15,20,25 it's 5,10,15,20,30. Or perhaps they should get twice as much as a Progenitor? 5,10,15,20,40.

 

Things to think of as you test out the Sire's. I feel like they're somewhat nerfed only getting two spells during the beta but there are more spells that should come as Jakisthe has planned, things like Integra (which quite honestly I just need to figure out how to do) and the others documented on the front page that either we need to figure out if we are and can do them or remove/replace them with others.

 

Thanks for taking the time!

 

-MM

Edited April 11, 2012 by MofoMojo

[nskin039]

They are already stronger just by nature of how we've set them up, but they're incrementally stronger. By that I mean, it's a relatively flat line of increased bonuses from Fledgling all the way to Sire. If fledglings get a 5% bonus of something, Sire's probably get a 25% bonus. I'm thinking perhaps Sires should get twice the bonus that Master's have. So instead of 5,10,15,20,25 it's 5,10,15,20,30. Or perhaps they should get twice as much as a Progenitor? 5,10,15,20,40.

 

Things to think of as you test out the Sire's. I feel like they're somewhat nerfed only getting two spells during the beta but there are more spells that should come as Jakisthe has planned,

-MM

 

I agree with the second alternative. That sires should have twice that of the prognegator.

 

As far as bugs/tweaks go I reported several in the Beta private message.

Been having fun testing this.

Edited April 11, 2012 by nskin039

[Userper]

This is all progressing very well from the looks of things, looking forward to release

just wondering where do you guys stand on killmoves?

Will you add new ones? (Vampire ripping a dudes neck out, or picking up a dude and throwing him accross the room with his super strength)

or will you leave those out and focus on other features?

[Jakisthe]

Killmoves are..kinda on the wayside. On the one hand, they're certainly interesting, but on the other:

-will likely interrupt battlefeeding potential randomly, which could prove dangerous

-I still am awful at finding a go-between for 3DxMax and Beth animations >_>

 

As far as Sire spells go...I think that's the best way to "power up" the various levels. Statistical increases, I feel, should be relatively linear..they're not nearly as visible to the player, so a large jump might be hard to follow. Spells, on the other hand, require active usage, and provide a much clearer point of distinction. Plus, they have the chance to actually add strategies, as opposed to statistical increases, which merely make strategies more likely to succeed..but don't actually make new ones.

As MM said, there are still spells which we need to work on, or find out if they're even possible. Things like light snuffing, gravity reversal, integra, dark flames, etc.

 

At any rate, I'm getting a LOT of good feedback from the beta so far, and am in the midst of consolidating the results. Keep letting me know your thoughts, testers!

[MofoMojo]

Killmoves are..kinda on the wayside. On the one hand, they're certainly interesting, but on the other:

-will likely interrupt battlefeeding potential randomly, which could prove dangerous

-I still am awful at finding a go-between for 3DxMax and Beth animations >_>

 

As far as Sire spells go...I think that's the best way to "power up" the various levels. Statistical increases, I feel, should be relatively linear..they're not nearly as visible to the player, so a large jump might be hard to follow. Spells, on the other hand, require active usage, and provide a much clearer point of distinction. Plus, they have the chance to actually add strategies, as opposed to statistical increases, which merely make strategies more likely to succeed..but don't actually make new ones.

As MM said, there are still spells which we need to work on, or find out if they're even possible. Things like light snuffing, gravity reversal, integra, dark flames, etc.

 

At any rate, I'm getting a LOT of good feedback from the beta so far, and am in the midst of consolidating the results. Keep letting me know your thoughts, testers!

 

Killmoves... that's definitely something we should keep on the list of things to consider... I personally LOVE kill moves, and ran with some KillMove mods that increased chances of kill moves, etc,. but then they interfered with getting off feed attacks so I had to tone down the percentages. That said, It would be interesting to say, do a feed attack on a combatant and if you couldn't ....reanimate them (because they're higher than your level) then finish off with a kill move. But as Jakisthe point's out we're a bit away from doing animations of that sort. We'd likely need a kill move expert to assist because there seem to be a lot to ensuring that it executes, executes when it should (conditionals) and animates well together with the ... victim. But that's one for the side notes on things to consider!

 

Yep...most of our increases right now are rather linear, and with fewer spells on the final level (again...just currently) I think I'm looking for something to add some oomph. Increasing the odds of getting off a vampiric evasion seems like something that might translate well. As it's passive, but it's still something the player experiences. The increments in damage output are rather ... small. I think in the neighbor of 5% additional damage per stage that I feel like it may not even be noticed, but then my damage output seems to be pretty high right now. I have a lot of discussion about some of the remaining spells that I was going to post here, but .... I'm going to take that offline.

 

-MM

[Leeira]

Maybe killmoves could be more likely the more starved you are. The vampire gets so instinct-driven that he just fights and kills, not even able to drink of half-dead enemies because of his hunger. This makes it even harder for a very starved vampire (which is good I think, the player should be rewarded for not waiting for to long until feeding).

Well the other way round could make sense too: less killmoves to make it more likely to drink. Both make sense, it's a question of personal liking.

[NiKtheALiEN]

I'm so excited about this mod, I'm counting the days until release!

[MofoMojo]

]

Maybe killmoves could be more likely the more starved you are. The vampire gets so instinct-driven that he just fights and kills, not even able to drink of half-dead enemies because of his hunger. This makes it even harder for a very starved vampire (which is good I think, the player should be rewarded for not waiting for to long until feeding).

Well the other way round could make sense too: less killmoves to make it more likely to drink. Both make sense, it's a question of personal liking.

 

Hi Leeira, that's actually a very good idea for us to remember if we do end up implementing kill moves. I like the idea that that percentage chance of kill moves increases when you're starved, thereby forcing you to satiate through traditional means. You don't get very much satiation through attacks any way so... But yeah, on the flip side, part of that rage is to get to the blood so .... But I like it!

 

I'm so excited about this mod, I'm counting the days until release!

 

Thanks for the kind words NiKtheALiEN. I'm kind of counting the days myself.

 

-MM

[Jakisthe]

FOR THOSE IN THE BETA

 

Hope it's been going well! I've been getting lots of informative feedback from you guys, and it will ALL be taken into consideration for the next stage of this mod. That said, we're looking to wrap up this Thursday/Friday, so I can make the report and discuss changes with MM over the weekend. So 2 weeks after the beta started! Keep letting me know what works and what doesn't!

 

As I said in the beta letters, there isn't really a time limit...but the longer you wait past this week, the more out of date your input will be :confused:. I don't wanna waste your time by forcing a report on an already resolved issue :mellow: