[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[nskin039]

On Feeding and Trespassing.

 

Can those that experienced it tell me if they simply didn't get the option to feed on sleeping victims when trespassing? There's no pre-requisite check for whether you are trespassing in order to feed. I tested this again just to ensure, and I can feed when I'm trespassing (assuming the victim is asleep) so one question:

 

What level vampire were you?

 

Pretty sure I tried at all level other than Sire. When I tried, I did not have the option to feed at all. And as far as I can tell no one was carrying garlic

 

 

On Feeding from essentials:

 

Any thoughts or considerations on how this should be handled? Disabling the ability to feed from essentials and protected (such as followers) doesn't seem the right approach, and by their very nature of being essential and protected can't be killed by normal means (not suggesting that they should be killed). I could track the last essential actor you fed from and the amount of time that's passed since you fed, and only allow you to feed from them once every 24 hours.

 

I'm open to suggestions here.

 

Is there a way to incapacitate an essential NPC for a period of time (maybe 48 hours) if they are drained dry? That way if you feed on them to the point where they would normally die, they would stay sleeping/incapacitated for a long period of time (I suggest 2 days for their body to recover).

 

On Healing/Magicka/Etc,.

So two other things while I'm working on getting some POC work around Dark Gift and ... a Dark Sacrifice spell...do away with those undead followers for fun and profit..well not fun and profit but Magicka and Health.

Sound great, you sacrifice your follower and absorb the full potential of their Health and Magika. (Since this is killing them it should be significantly better than simple feeding) Maybe fully recover magika, health, and stamina and you also gain a healthy heart for use later

 

Out of Combat:

75% chance to get a "Fresh" heart. If you get a fresh heart the chances of getting a healthy fresh heart (uber heart) are as described above. This is the way it is now, and intended to be in beta.

 

In Combat:

50% chance to get a "Fresh" heart. If you get a fresh heart, it will be damaged.

 

I think if you are in combat the chance for a healthy heart should be lower. Maybe say 25%. But you should not be considered in combat once the last bad guy dies. I also think the timing should be 15-30 seconds. 10 seconds to harvest a heart is very limited.

[MofoMojo]

On Feeding and Trespassing.

 

Can those that experienced it tell me if they simply didn't get the option to feed on sleeping victims when trespassing? There's no pre-requisite check for whether you are trespassing in order to feed. I tested this again just to ensure, and I can feed when I'm trespassing (assuming the victim is asleep) so one question:

 

What level vampire were you?

 

Pretty sure I tried at all level other than Sire. When I tried, I did not have the option to feed at all. And as far as I can tell no one was carrying garlic

Thanks Nskin039. Any others? I will test again. I just now tested again with my fledgling and had no problems. The mechanics don't change and quite honestly the perk to give you the activate "Feed" command doesn't take trespassing into consideration so I'm at a loss here. But, I want you to be able to feed! Perhaps we take the trespassing component out altogether. I like it, but in the grand scheme of things there are things beyond our control, such as when the game considers you to be trespassing, that can make life difficult.

 

On Feeding from essentials:

 

Any thoughts or considerations on how this should be handled? Disabling the ability to feed from essentials and protected (such as followers) doesn't seem the right approach, and by their very nature of being essential and protected can't be killed by normal means (not suggesting that they should be killed). I could track the last essential actor you fed from and the amount of time that's passed since you fed, and only allow you to feed from them once every 24 hours.

 

I'm open to suggestions here.

 

Is there a way to incapacitate an essential NPC for a period of time (maybe 48 hours) if they are drained dry? That way if you feed on them to the point where they would normally die, they would stay sleeping/incapacitated for a long period of time (I suggest 2 days for their body to recover).

 

Hmmmmm the problem is knowing that they should have died. Essentials can heal very quickly so you could easily go from being 100% starved to 100% satiated before you'd do enough damage to make them stagger or dry them out. It would be interesting to paralyze/force sleep them for 2 days. That would be a real penalty. I'm not sure if I can override their sleep schedule so that they would stay asleep for 48 hours, but it's possible. Any interaction with them causes them to get up, but perhaps we could make them get up, and then go right back to bed, effectively making them feel the need to stay in bed during that time. Alternatively, we could give them nasty hangovers and penalties as well as prevent their being used to feed.

 

On Healing/Magicka/Etc,.

So two other things while I'm working on getting some POC work around Dark Gift and ... a Dark Sacrifice spell...do away with those undead followers for fun and profit..well not fun and profit but Magicka and Health.

Sound great, you sacrifice your follower and absorb the full potential of their Health and Magika. (Since this is killing them it should be significantly better than simple feeding) Maybe fully recover magika, health, and stamina and you also gain a healthy heart for use later

What I've got working right now is that you gain whatever magicka, health, and stamina they had when you sacrifice them. No hearts because they were already dead to begin with. They also turn into a pile of ash so that you can't reanimate and abuse the privelege if you happen to be playing a conjurer.

 

Out of Combat:

75% chance to get a "Fresh" heart. If you get a fresh heart the chances of getting a healthy fresh heart (uber heart) are as described above. This is the way it is now, and intended to be in beta.

 

In Combat:

50% chance to get a "Fresh" heart. If you get a fresh heart, it will be damaged.

 

I think if you are in combat the chance for a healthy heart should be lower. Maybe say 25%. But you should not be considered in combat once the last bad guy dies. I also think the timing should be 15-30 seconds. 10 seconds to harvest a heart is very limited.

 

The incombat mechanics are entirely up to the game. Most of the time it's last man standing = you, you're not in combat. But I've actually had combatants out in the woods that fleed well beyond my sight and it considered me still in combat. It was quite annoying but... Outside of that, typically if you're the last man standing you're no longer considered in combat and the percentage chances would kick in appropriately.

 

I'll concede giving you a 25% chance of your previous chance to get a Healthy heart while you're in combat. But the 10 second rule still applies. :) It was supposed to be limited. I didn't really want you to get a heart but once every battle, twice if you were really lucky. I'm going to test this out. If the game makes you invulnerable while you're in the harvest animation then I'll probably revert back. If you're going to take the time to harvest a heart in combat, I want you to be vulnerable to attack.

 

So, out of combat your chances would still be this:

 

Fledglings 15%

Risen 30%

Masters 45%

Progenitors 60%

Sires 75%

 

In combat your chances would be:

Fledglings 3.75%

Risen 7.5%

Masters 11.25%

Progenitors 15%

Sires 18.75%

 

Progenitors, in combat, have the same chance of getting a fresh heart as Fledglings do when not in combat. That sounds about right. I'd almost rather Sires in combat having the same amount. I might have to tweak that percentage a small bit, maybe make it 20%.

 

-MM

 

Edit: Nskin039, you've had the most feedback around this area that I'm aware of. Sent you a test build with the heart tweaks if you're interested.

Edited April 29, 2012 by MofoMojo

[chaosaeon]

Oh, how about an ability (sneak skill permitting) that allows you to enter and exit buildings through windows for a more subtle entrance ? As for the flying, clipping through trees etc might be less apparent if say, the character were to transform into a cloud of bats and remain one for the duration of flight. The clipping could be considered just swarming around the objects if it's a real immersion breaker. Edited April 29, 2012 by chaosaeon

[MofoMojo]

Oh, how about an ability (sneak skill permitting) that allows you to enter and exit buildings through windows for a more subtle entrance ? As for the flying, clipping through trees etc might be less apparent if say, the character were to transform into a cloud of bats and remain one for the duration of flight. The clipping could be considered just swarming around the objects if it's a real immersion breaker.

 

I want to say that there's a mod already lets you use windows for sneaking into. That's certainly more tailored to thieving but I like the idea of supporting ingration of the two. As for flying, it's already in there. You fly and clip through trees, etc,. beacuse you're a cloud of mist.

 

-MM

[MofoMojo]

Just another status update. I implemented both Dark Sacrifice (Kill an undead follower that you resurrected via bite for all of their stamina, health, and magica) and Dark Gift which is Jakisthe's original explanation here. The only addition/changes. It consumes 1 satiation. Just 1, personally I think it should be 5. And not only that, it's configurable. Don't like it, set it to 0. :) And I also removed the ability from Fledglings.

 

One of the biggest peices that really needs some testing is Vampire's Kiss. It works almost flawlessly now and even better. If you're in a house that you are trespassing in, if you charm the owner, you will no longer be considered a trespasser while the spell is active. If the target is not the owern, but a faction is the owner and the target is IN that faction, then you will no longer be considered trespassing.

 

-MM

[Jakisthe]

I see progress has been made on the DG and DS gift? Btw, MM, you were right; I do keep confusing Dark Sacrifice and Dark Gift. DG=the health circulation idea I outlined, and DS=sacrificing followers, right? I think that's it...what, btw, is the mechanic on DS? Do you get health back based on percentage, or a straight linear numerical transfer?

 

At any rate, people will be pleased to know that there are more ways than ever to gain health now, so the vampire should be considerably more powerful :)

 

Sorry I've been missing this thread everyone; I've been sick this past weekend and am [shockingly!] busy with school. Not AS busy, but...well, suffice to say, I have a midterm tomorrow :P

[MofoMojo]

I see progress has been made on the DG and DS gift? Btw, MM, you were right; I do keep confusing Dark Sacrifice and Dark Gift. DG=the health circulation idea I outlined, and DS=sacrificing followers, right? I think that's it...what, btw, is the mechanic on DS? Do you get health back based on percentage, or a straight linear numerical transfer?

 

At any rate, people will be pleased to know that there are more ways than ever to gain health now, so the vampire should be considerably more powerful :)

 

Sorry I've been missing this thread everyone; I've been sick this past weekend and am [shockingly!] busy with school. Not AS busy, but...well, suffice to say, I have a midterm tomorrow :P

 

Yep, you got it right there.

 

For Dark Sacrifice, the way it's currently coded is probably a bit too useful. It transfers ALL remaining health, magicka, and stamina of the servant to you. There should probably be some bit of loss based on Vampire level. Might I suggest:

 

Fledgling 15%

Risen 30%

Master 60%

Progenitor 75%

Sire 90%

 

But that gives a way to recover health, magicka AND stamina.

 

Dark Gift is currently implemented almost the same as described by your original post on it (Thanks for the clarification!). The only difference is that out of the box I went ahead and attached a satiation requirement. You will not be able to use Dark Gift if you can't pay the Satiation cost (I think it's 1 or 5). This is user configurable so if you don't want Dark Gift to take satiation you can set the amount to 0 but I think for balance it should be there.

 

Personally I think there are now TOO many ways to heal, but this was definitely an issue brought up repeatedly with our testers. I do believe that now that the bug with getting "Fresh Heart (healthy)" is fixed (you no longer only get Destroyed Hearts, or Fresh Heart (Damaged)" will go a long way providing methods to heal and restore stamina and magicka. I also implemented the ability to harvest hearts when in combat, but increased the changes that it would be destroyed heart, and decreased the chances that it would be a healthy heart when in combat. We'll see how that goes. Should make alchemists happy with a run on useable heart ingredients. :)

 

If it becomes too easy, I may put the out of combat requirement back in, or lower the effectiveness of Healthy hearts. I don't want players having no fear of Death, however hearts were supposed to replace potions so perhaps having more access to the healing methods will provide more opportunity to stockpile hearts. Oh, I also lowered the weight of hearts from 5 to 3 for healthy, and 2 for damaged.

 

-MM

Edited May 1, 2012 by MofoMojo

[MofoMojo]

Status Update

 

• 
   
  
• Fixed Vampire Carryweight at Sire level. It now comes in properly.
  
• Set Fledglings to not get sundamage, however ... in exchange ... you will not be able to fast travel when the game things you're being hit by sunlight. So if it tells you you can't fast travel when taking damage, but you're not taking damage. That's why.
  
• Fixed Feeding endlessly. Invulnerable, Protected,Essential characters will get "Drain Sickness". Right nowere there's no visible effect, but the "FEED" option will not be available for another 24 hours.
  
• For now I'm leaving all the original trespassing the way it is. Vampire's Kiss works REALLY well now, and if you can target the correct person then you won't be considered trespassing. I could never reproduce not being able to feed when trespassing.
  
• Took out the sparkling effect from forma
  
• Took out duplicate carry effect on some levels
  
• fixed (hopefully) grammar in the journal, and some spell descriptions
  
• made the journal clearer
  
• Fixed sound when eating hearts
  
• Confirmed, can now get damaged and healthy hearts
  
• Currently you can harvest hearts during afight, but everyone stops and watchs you. I don't like that, so may remove it.
  
• While you can get the blessing of the shrines if you're fast enough, you will keep it for roughly 2 seconds.
  
• Got rid of annoying axe groaning noises.
  
• Leaving sleep requirement for level progress at 24 hours.
  
• Made stealth feeding an average of pickpocket and sneak + bonus of VampireLevel * 4.
  
• Left in kill requirements. The game is tailorable to people's own likings and can simply be removed (refer to beta guide on how)
  
• Worked in Dark Sacrifice as previously descirbed
  
• Worked in Dark Gift as previously described. This is VERY easy to abuse in a fight. I may up the satiation to 5 points. That way if you get feed kills, you can neutralize the use. Otherwise at 1, I single handledly took down a dragon that I Couldn't take down on my own without it. I would die in the first breath. This kept me through the whole fight. Too powerful.
  

 

This isn't everything we're going to fix, just a list of things we have.

 

Things I can't fix: Blood boiling when entering certain ruins. This is the nature of the game. The game has the parts of the ruin flagged as ownership. Technically you ARE trespassing.

Healh Bars for NPCs - Beyond our scope of skill to dynamically show healthbars

Kill through feeding requirements - User configurable, feel free to set these to 0

Heavy Breathing when exiting the water. Currently this is a game mechanic. I may fix, but I'm not even sure where to start right now.

 

There were a number of other anamolous type problems, some I can't reproduce others that are entirely reproduceable but to fix it one way would introduce the same problem a different way. i.e. harvesting hearts, falling through floors. I am going to try and position you 10 units up to see if this helps, but if you're near a ledge, this could proof fatal.

 

Finally...some of the bugs with Forma....just going to take more time.

 

But that's my status update for today. We're getting ready for a 1.0 release comig very soon.

 

To the beta testers, let me know if any of the changes either a) Resolve your issue, b) Remove the issue perhaps don't need the change any longer, of if we made you unappy with the change. The testers are more than welkcome to takt this latest build for a test ride. just ping me.

 

-MM

 

-MM

Edited May 1, 2012 by MofoMojo

[nskin039]

Things I can't fix:

Healh Bars for NPCs - Beyond our scope of skill to dynamically show healthbars

Please try to fix this, it would be very helpful. This mod has it implemented last I checked. See if the owner can give some tips.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9717

[Asuke01]

Thank for guiding me here MM, This mod's lookin cool too!!

Did you guys ever see this clip before??

it's Fearsome magicka, Great mod from oblivion game

0.56 darkness spell!!

 

I just watched your summon weapon POC clip... I agree with you it looks a little too powerful, So why dont you guys just add some condition to cast it....

I mean a vampire must cast darkness spell to cover the area with darkness before casting it..? and with this concept maybe you guys will be able to add some new spells,obtained from future clan quest or next version,that work when a vampire's in the darkness area.

 

@LonerFO you're genius!! I didnt even think about it before. like MM said I'm one of the guys that load up a save as soon as I died.

 

By the way Thank you for really quick response MM : )

and Thank you guys that make vampire system of this game more interesting that it was!!

PS.My English skill's quite poor

Edited May 3, 2012 by Asuke01