Mods are not gonna be for free ?

[ginnyfizz]

Nexus is based in the United Kingdom, and although some servers are in the USA, others are not, and the servers could be moved totally outside the USA.

 

Any attempt to invoke SOPA in either the UK or Europe would result in the learned judges delivering an almighty kick up the arse to Bethesda and Valve. Even giants like Mikey Soft and Sony have to have totally different EULA's for the UK and Europe, because our consumer laws make the kind of restrictive practices that they seem to get away with in the USA illegal. So there is no way that they could kill Nexus with that.

 

The location and opperational base of the Nexus is irrelivent in the terms of SOPA, as it includes not only the ability to remove copyrighted content, but also the ability to block content which is managed outside the duristiction of the USA. Such an act would result in the loss of thousands of members to the Nexus community. Whether dead from the legal hammer, or dead from lack of activity, dead is dead.

 

Still, doing anything like that is not in Bethesda's best interests. While corporations tend to make increadably assinine choices (Like Sony backing SOPA has hard as they are) from time to time they usually make pragmatic decisions.

 

It's in Bethesda's best interests to keep the mods thorugh Steamworkshop free, and thus it will almost certianly keep pressure on Valve to prevent charges. Again, its very unlikely we'll see charges for plugins and mods on Steamworkshop unless their in the 10+ gb range, and even then i doubt it.

 

The location and operational base of the Nexus is most certainly NOT irrelevant. (Yes, I AM a lawyer, or was). Any attempt by the US to implement SOPA in the UK or Europe would be interfering with sovereign nations who have their own laws which their courts would not roll over and allow to be overriden. It would immediately be legally challenged and would be drummed right out of the High Court, because whereas EU law can sometimes take precedence over UK law, US laws most certainly cannot. Just because the Bill says something, doesn't mean they CAN make it happen. Way to cause a real diplomatic incident and stoke the anti US sentiments of a growing number of my compatriots (not myself, I hasten to add.) And you know something, if they even TALKED about doing anything to Nexus I'd make damned sure it got publicity by talking to my notoriously gobby left wing firebrand of an MP.

 

Lachdonin, I do find your defence of the indefensible worrying. Steam/Valve are just being greedy. Sure they suck you in with the cheap game offers, but they are now trying to give with one hand and take away with the other.

 

As for this from minngarm;-

 

"Wrong, any content created with either parts of content, or the engine used in the game becomes the property of the games parent company. Meaning simply that by making a mod with a custom designed and added sword to Skyrim, makes that mod the property of Bethesda"

 

Actually, no it doesn't, it is you who are wrong. Bethesda do not own the game engine, they are only one of a number of game companies who have a licence for it. Their claim to any user modified game files has been blindly accepted, but it is very shaky, in fact it is just as ridiculous as Kenwood marching into my kitchen and saying "Hey Ginny, that cake you just made using our mixer, well because you used our mixer we are taking over the cake". Using the full weight of intellectual property and patent laws against modders who are neither making money from their mods nor have any desire to do so would be regarded as an abuse of process.

[Lachdonin]

The location and operational base of the Nexus is most certainly NOT irrelevant. (Yes, I AM a lawyer, or was). Any attempt by the US to implement SOPA in the UK or Europe would be interfering with sovereign nations who have their own laws which their courts would not roll over and allow to be overriden. It would immediately be legally challenged and would be drummed right out of the High Court, because whereas EU law can sometimes take precedence over UK law, US laws most certainly cannot. Just because the Bill says something, doesn't mean they CAN make it happen. Way to cause a real diplomatic incident and stoke the anti US sentiments of a growing number of my compatriots (not myself, I hasten to add.) And you know something, if they even TALKED about doing anything to Nexus I'd make damned sure it got publicity by talking to my notoriously gobby left wing firebrand of an MP.

 

You clearly missunderstand what i said. The terms of SOPA do not allow Bethesda, Sony or even the US government to directly target internet services based outside the united states. What it DOES do it allow those companies to demand restrictions and the ability to access said services by individuals within the United states. Under SOPA, Bethesda could, in principal, order the Nexus blocked from american ISP's.

 

Regardless of being unable to take down the Nexus directly, such an action would starve the Nexus of a massive community base.

 

And i am not defending any action on the part of Steam, because no such action has yet been taken. The terms of service only stares that they CAN. I most certianlly will not support it if they do, nor will i defend their decision, but they have the legal right to do so. Making money off of other peoples work is the cornerstone fo capitalism.

 

This is the same as the damn GK debate. People are seeing demons and placing blame before anythings even happened.

[Wraithofdoom]

Maybe they're considering introducing premium mods in addition, as another option. If doesn't do well, then no worries and it will go away. If it does well, then maybe it's not so bad because that means a lot of people like it. I can't see it working unless they then offered the original game for free and only charged for premium content. Or subscription, maybe. So much could happen, or not much at all. Machinima made my head spin trying to follow the history of DoTa, all the free mods that took off and evolved and how modders went to companies and implemented some successful some not business models and on it still goes...

 

"Premium" mods already exist, what about Nehrim ? thats as premium as it gets, and it was for free. The very concept of a mod and the worderfull modding community is destroyed if it isnt free, it becomes a DLC.

[minngarm]

I would like to point out an example worth making note of here. When I used to play FFXI, on the EULA was a notation that by agreeing to the use of the software (the game.) You also agree that any legal disbutes in regards to the software, its use, rights and so on and so such, were the jurisdiction of Japanese law. While the majority of the servers, support, and use, was in the actual US as well as myself, the gamer in question at this point.

 

Now I have not looked over Bethesda or Valves EULA and such of late, but by adding such a notation, it does infact make it a legal agreement by us, the users to them the company/companies and state which law is in effect over any plausable issue with the product, engine, and mods created by and for such items.

 

So regardless of where a mod site may be, and what laws would govern that site directly, if say, the FNV Geck, or SKyrim toolset were to include such a notation on use, saying that legal issues are under the jurisdiction of US law, then no matter where the offence in question is (UK) and where the user is (Bum-fruck-no-where NZ) that agreement even if gone unnoticed by the user would make any issue handled and addressed in a US court. This is legally accepted the world over as anyone of adult age (which can vary by country) is bound by any agreement they make with a company.

[alsoran]

Firstly I don't mod, but I stand in awe of those that do and I enjoy their work, they have given me many hours of pleasure, thanks for that.

 

I think, pessimistically that big companies generally don't do anything for any reason other than profit. Altruism is probarbly last on their list although its a useful cover up for what is really happening, being able to put a spin on a situation has become a virtue. Mods prolong a games life through sustained sales over a longer period, Mods heavily influence the development of future games, people are creating mods to be used for free using tools provided by the game publisher no cash is changing hands, some of the content created as mods for a particular game may not be part of the games publisher vision or could damage their business reputation, the publisher owns all rights to the game and wants to benefit from that to the max,

 

I'm thinking what would I do? Well I would would want to control access to my game at all levels, that might be through Steam. I would control my rights and ensure that all content developed with my tools was vetted and owned by me, I might be able to do this through Steam. I would develop a modding tool which would work within the exclusive context of Steam (or whatever) I would charge modders for the right to publish their mods and control transactions whereby modders could charge for their work ensuring a small % to me, I expect Steam could be made to do this, a bit like the app store. I can now determine and cash in on all aspects of my games product life cycle and I won't be worried about newspaper reports that I'm publishing immoral games with lewd content. The benefit to me is that I still enjoy all the benefits of having a modding community, that is I get new ideas, people buy my game for the new content and so on, but I control what they do and I make my money at the same time. I'm particularly attracted to the idea that I could do this with consoles (Imagine a high res mod on a Xbox 360 lol) they are a ready market.

 

I'm not saying that this is what will happen but the technology is definitely out there and because I'm a pessimist I find it hard to be an optimist even though I 'm told they have a better journey to the same destination :)

 

Wraithofdoom has a point when he says that if it is'nt free its a dlc, I think we will see a lot of dlc's (mods) in future and it will become increasingly difficult to mod without the approved tools obtained through the proper channels. On a lighter note there is alway the posibility that I'm wrong or that other ways will be found to preserve the community as it is, people in general can be very inventive if they feel that something is not right. Lets hope they do.

[minngarm]

DLC's is a term used to described payed downloadable content, Mods is the term for free downloadable content, just an FYI.

[thesapien]

Maybe they're considering introducing premium mods in addition, as another option. If doesn't do well, then no worries and it will go away. If it does well, then maybe it's not so bad because that means a lot of people like it. I can't see it working unless they then offered the original game for free and only charged for premium content. Or subscription, maybe. So much could happen, or not much at all. Machinima made my head spin trying to follow the history of DoTa, all the free mods that took off and evolved and how modders went to companies and implemented some successful some not business models and on it still goes...

 

"Premium" mods already exist, what about Nehrim ? thats as premium as it gets, and it was for free. The very concept of a mod and the worderfull modding community is destroyed if it isnt free, it becomes a DLC.

 

I meant "premium" as it's used commonly, meaning it's something you pay extra for. It doesn't mean the same as say "quality". A free premium is a contradiction, so, no, premium mods don't already exist for Skyrim given that they are free.

 

I'm not taking sides, just discussing. I don't mind so much some people asking to trade their hard work with me. I don't demand they just give it to me for free. But I also hate copyrights and trade secrets because they might motivate a small group but limit larger communities and more collective thought. To me, it's complicated.

[Wraithofdoom]

Firstly I don't mod, but I stand in awe of those that do and I enjoy their work, they have given me many hours of pleasure, thanks for that.

 

I'm thinking what would I do? Well I would would want to control access to my game at all levels, that might be through Steam. I would control my rights and ensure that all content developed with my tools was vetted and owned by me, I might be able to do this through Steam. I would develop a modding tool which would work within the exclusive context of Steam (or whatever) I would charge modders for the right to publish their mods and control transactions whereby modders could charge for their work ensuring a small % to me, I expect Steam could be made to do this, a bit like the app store. I can now determine and cash in on all aspects of my games product life cycle and I won't be worried about newspaper reports that I'm publishing immoral games with lewd content. The benefit to me is that I still enjoy all the benefits of having a modding community, that is I get new ideas, people buy my game for the new content and so on, but I control what they do and I make my money at the same time. I'm particularly attracted to the idea that I could do this with consoles (Imagine a high res mod on a Xbox 360 lol) they are a ready market.

 

I'm not saying that this is what will happen but the technology is definitely out there and because I'm a pessimist I find it hard to be an optimist even though I 'm told they have a better journey to the same destination :)

 

Wraithofdoom has a point when he says that if it is'nt free its a dlc, I think we will see a lot of dlc's (mods) in future and it will become increasingly difficult to mod without the approved tools obtained through the proper channels. On a lighter note there is alway the posibility that I'm wrong or that other ways will be found to preserve the community as it is, people in general can be very inventive if they feel that something is not right. Lets hope they do.

 

thats true but they should include the fact that no one will pay for mods and that many modders wont mod for them into their thought process, their game will die out if they try to pull this. I personally think Valve/Steam is the one behind this idea, not bethesda.

 

I meant "premium" as it's used commonly, meaning it's something you pay extra for. It doesn't mean the same as say "quality". A free premium is a contradiction, so, no, premium mods don't already exist for Skyrim given that they are free.

 

sorry i assumed by premium you meant "huge and polished" or something along those lines.

[ginnyfizz]

I would like to point out an example worth making note of here. When I used to play FFXI, on the EULA was a notation that by agreeing to the use of the software (the game.) You also agree that any legal disbutes in regards to the software, its use, rights and so on and so such, were the jurisdiction of Japanese law. While the majority of the servers, support, and use, was in the actual US as well as myself, the gamer in question at this point.

 

Now I have not looked over Bethesda or Valves EULA and such of late, but by adding such a notation, it does infact make it a legal agreement by us, the users to them the company/companies and state which law is in effect over any plausable issue with the product, engine, and mods created by and for such items.

 

So regardless of where a mod site may be, and what laws would govern that site directly, if say, the FNV Geck, or SKyrim toolset were to include such a notation on use, saying that legal issues are under the jurisdiction of US law, then no matter where the offence in question is (UK) and where the user is (Bum-fruck-no-where NZ) that agreement even if gone unnoticed by the user would make any issue handled and addressed in a US court. This is legally accepted the world over as anyone of adult age (which can vary by country) is bound by any agreement they make with a company.

 

No. The game companies EULA's can say what they like, and they like to make you think that they are enforceable, but they aren't invariably so, and some game companies have actually got around to realising this. Like Microsoft and Sony know that they have to have different EULA's for Europe than they do in the USA. Trying to impose an agreement that the law of one particular country would prevail would not be bound to succeed, particularly with a huge corporation based in one country trying to force the small consumers, who might be from varying jurisdictions, to go to law in that jurisdiction. After all, MS and Sony had to bow to the fact that in Europe they could not force customers to agree to give up their rights to class actions (and they had to write a different EULA). So there is no reason why saying that US law prevails means diddly squat, it doesn't.

 

Much as I admire the US in many ways, I was not aware that their laws prevailed over everyone else's, in fact I know that they don't, and I'd really love to see anyone try tell a crabbity old English judge that he wasn't competent to hear a case because someone's EULA said US law prevailed. "But this litigant is based in England and I WILL hear him/her..." is about the least rude remark you'd get from him/her.

[WOTmodsproductions]

Read this carefully

 

Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution for free and/or for a fee. If Valve chooses to distribute Your Contribution for a fee, then Valve may set the price for such distribution in its sole discretion, and Valve will pay You as follows, conditioned on Your compliance with the obligations contained in this Agreement

 

It means that even if you try to boycot this a want to upload to the nexus, you will get sued for fraud. By agreeing to use the construction set, then valve own your file / mod which is what this agreement says.

Therefore if valve decide to charge for your file (which they can do against your will as they now own this mod) you cant upload it anywhere else for free.

As much as I hate to say it, doing this will only be breaking the law as you have agreed to a legally binding contract.

 

You cant distribute the file for free after valve start charging for it, because you no longer own it

Read the conditions etc, its very clear to me :-(