ArcieAdam Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Azura, no contest. The divines aren't even really 'Gods', just powerful usurper Et'ada who parade around as Gods and pretend their as powerful as the Daedra. As far as I've understood, the Eight made the world what it is after Lorkhan/Shor tricked them into entering Mundus. The Daedra are piggybacking on what the Aedra created, pretending like the world belongs to them. Well, most of them do, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As far as I've understood, the Eight made the world what it is after Lorkhan/Shor tricked them into entering Mundus. The Daedra are piggybacking on what the Aedra created, pretending like the world belongs to them. Well, most of them do, at least. That was supposed to be a, ironicaly quasi-religious statement, referancing the claims of Mankar Cameron. He claims that Lorkhan is, in fact, a Daedra who was betrayed by his more powerful subordinates, 'murdered' and now his former followers (The divines) rule over his plane of Oblivion. In reality (As far as reality of the TES universe goes) the Daedra and Aedra are, in principal, the same level of entity. The Aedra, however, are dramatically weakened in the creation and maintinance of Mundus, and in their current state are not capable of taking on a Daedra on even footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcieAdam Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That was supposed to be a, ironicaly quasi-religious statement, referancing the claims of Mankar Cameron. He claims that Lorkhan is, in fact, a Daedra who was betrayed by his more powerful subordinates, 'murdered' and now his former followers (The divines) rule over his plane of Oblivion. In reality (As far as reality of the TES universe goes) the Daedra and Aedra are, in principal, the same level of entity. The Aedra, however, are dramatically weakened in the creation and maintinance of Mundus, and in their current state are not capable of taking on a Daedra on even footing. You know, I do seem to remember Mankar Cameron didn't have all of his facts straight. But even though the Aedra are weak after creation, it still feels to me like the Daedra are inhabiting someone else's home and claiming it as their own in a might makes right sort of fashion (Although, as far as deities work, I'm sure that's exactly how it works.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Cameron did indeed have many of his facts wrong. Of course, all his information came from a rather poor translation of an incomprehensable Daedric tome, so we can probably chock it up to poor cross referancing. Again, it was meant to be an ironic quasi-religious assertion rather than an actually serious claim. As for the Daedra being interlopers, i tend to view it as a interactive dynamic between the Aedra dn Daedra. The Aedra represent and maintain the constants of the world, the structure, nature, the conceprs of time and civilization. The Daedra on the other hand maintain (or rather force) change within the world. Both contribute integral components to the world, but do so in very different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcieAdam Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Even though Mundus is not a plane of Oblivion, though, was it still Lorkhan's initial creation? If that is the case, than chaos (Padomay) is the base, and order (Anu) is imposed onto that chaos, as opposed to the world being orderful, and the Daedra impose chaos. Both are necessary components, but it's an interesting thought as to which is base, and which is imposed. To go a little further, it could also be said that chaos is imposed onto order which itself was imposed onto chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) You know, I do seem to remember Mankar Cameron didn't have all of his facts straight. But even though the Aedra are weak after creation, it still feels to me like the Daedra are inhabiting someone else's home and claiming it as their own in a might makes right sort of fashion (Although, as far as deities work, I'm sure that's exactly how it works.)Mankar's facts not being straight comes from the fact Bethesda used the quick first draft of the speech done by Micheal Kirkbride instead of his final copy. Even though Mundus is not a plane of Oblivion, though, was it still Lorkhan's initial creation? If that is the case, than chaos (Padomay) is the base, and order (Anu) is imposed onto that chaos, as opposed to the world being orderful, and the Daedra impose chaos. Both are necessary components, but it's an interesting thought as to which is base, and which is imposed. To go a little further, it could also be said that chaos is imposed onto order which itself was imposed onto chaos.Mundus's is actually surrounded by Oblivion, and all the space between the planes/planets of the gods is Oblivion So it is technically part of Oblivion as Nirn is surrounded completely by it. Edited January 16, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The 'official' order of creation is that Lorkhan came up with the 'Idea', Magnus drew up the plans, and the 8 Divines, along with their lesser followers, actually constructed Mundus. The overwhelming majority of the Et'ada who helped create the world were consumed in the process, either becomming the world its self or becomming mortal creatures (Elonife [i probabl spelled that wrong again]). Others fled when magnus left, tearing holes in the barrier (stars). Either way though, the world was an ordered place from the start. of course, That said, i think its an inherently risky business to atribute Anu and Padomay alignments as absolutes. Some Daedra, such as Azura and Peyrite, are more order aligned than their compatriots. Some Aedra, such as Dibella and Julianos are more erratic. Then you have strange entities, such as Meridia, who is the daughter of Magnus, highly regarded as an Aedric Et'ada. Why, then is Meridia a Daedra? The interplay between Padomay and Anu is what gives rise to the Et'ada, in my mind, and while you can divide them into two cardinal groups, the Aedra and the Daedra, i don't feel any can be expressly attributed to a single force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) You are very correct in that statement Lachdonin All one has to do is look at Jyggalag, a being of pure order who is a Daedra to see Daedra =/= Padomic aligned. Edited January 16, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcieAdam Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You are very correct in that statement Lachdonin All one has to do is look at Jyggalag, a being of pure order who is a Daedra to see Daedra =/= Padomic aligned. I hadn't thought of that before, and I must have played through the Shivering Isles questline at least three times. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wait, what am i saying... Azura's great and all, but shes nothing combared to Vivec! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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