The 'Thane' Rank

[KaptTorbjorn]

The title of Thane right now is rather pointless, but even worse than that, it makes absolutely no sense given the turbulent nature of Skyrim's politics. A Jarl in Skyrim would absolutely not make someone a Thane of the same city they preside over, for the simple fact that it gives another person a legitimate claim over the reign of the entire hold. If we look at the rank of a Jarl as a medieval Earl, then a Thane would be a Baron or Lord, certainly not someone whose only area of rulership was confined to a single home within a city. They would have a village to rule over themselves, people who it was their duty to protect, and this area would not be the same area as the Jarl.

 

So, what I was thinking was an expansion of the title of Thane; when you are given the title of Thane of a hold, you are assigned a village within the hold that you can expand, build your hall within, build other buildings and bring people to live in. The lands could be as follows:

 

Eastmarch - Thane of Kynesgrove

Falkreath - Thane of Helgen

Haafingar - Thane of Dragon Bridge

Hjaalmarch - Thane of Stonehills

The Pale - Thane of ???

The Reach - Thane of Karthwasten

The Rift - Thane of Shor's Stone/Thane of Ivarstead

Whiterun - Thane of Riverwood

Winterhold - Thane of ???

 

Just a rough idea, let me know what you guys think :)

Edited January 15, 2012 by KaptTorbjorn

[Sunnie]

Thane is only an honorary title, that gives a hero some levity with the hold guards, and in the more wealthy holds they award a personal Housecarl. The title of Thane holds no political power what-so-ever (every Jarl states it's "honorary" but has some perks), so your assumption that a Jarl's rule would be threatened by a Thane in the same city is rather, silly (for lack of a better term).

 

That said, I somewhat like the idea of expanding on a piece of land in a hold that you have to purchase, but I don't think a single hero should be able to do this in every hold.

[askelad]

a nice idea, maybe even a limit to being a thane, 2 max...

personally thane of helgen (which could be rebuilt via CK) would be awesome...

 

but, in Solitude the thanes do take political matters. i would love for skyrim to be more realistic; become thane, "accedently" kill the current jarl, take his place...

 

**sorry english is bad, i just dont really care**

[Haddacall]

Yeah! I like that idea. Kill the Jarl, take his place!...

[KaptTorbjorn]

Thane is only an honorary title, that gives a hero some levity with the hold guards, and in the more wealthy holds they award a personal Housecarl. The title of Thane holds no political power what-so-ever (every Jarl states it's "honorary" but has some perks), so your assumption that a Jarl's rule would be threatened by a Thane in the same city is rather, silly (for lack of a better term).

 

That said, I somewhat like the idea of expanding on a piece of land in a hold that you have to purchase, but I don't think a single hero should be able to do this in every hold.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_feudal_barony

Interesting quote on English feudal barony: "The estate-in-land held by barony if containing a significant castle as its caput and if especially large, that is to say consisting of more than about 20 knight's fees (each loosely equivalent to a manor), was termed an "honour""

 

Obviously within the limitations of the game and the interest of gameplay, you aren't required to pay wages for anyone, but Thane is a noble rank, not just a champion of a city.

[Sunnie]

Thane is only an honorary title, that gives a hero some levity with the hold guards, and in the more wealthy holds they award a personal Housecarl. The title of Thane holds no political power what-so-ever (every Jarl states it's "honorary" but has some perks), so your assumption that a Jarl's rule would be threatened by a Thane in the same city is rather, silly (for lack of a better term).

 

That said, I somewhat like the idea of expanding on a piece of land in a hold that you have to purchase, but I don't think a single hero should be able to do this in every hold.

 

http://en.wikipedia....h_feudal_barony

Interesting quote on English feudal barony: "The estate-in-land held by barony if containing a significant castle as its caput and if especially large, that is to say consisting of more than about 20 knight's fees (each loosely equivalent to a manor), was termed an "honour""

 

Obviously within the limitations of the game and the interest of gameplay, you aren't required to pay wages for anyone, but Thane is a noble rank, not just a champion of a city.

I am talking about the implementation of the title in this game, not in the real life Scot title which it is based (equivalent to a Count but still not a threat to the actual King as competition for the throne), and certainly not in regard to an English Monarchy.

[TheRagMan]

Macbeth was Thane of Glamis and then Thane of Cawdor before becoming King of Scotland.

[KaptTorbjorn]

Thane is only an honorary title, that gives a hero some levity with the hold guards, and in the more wealthy holds they award a personal Housecarl. The title of Thane holds no political power what-so-ever (every Jarl states it's "honorary" but has some perks), so your assumption that a Jarl's rule would be threatened by a Thane in the same city is rather, silly (for lack of a better term).

 

That said, I somewhat like the idea of expanding on a piece of land in a hold that you have to purchase, but I don't think a single hero should be able to do this in every hold.

 

http://en.wikipedia....h_feudal_barony

Interesting quote on English feudal barony: "The estate-in-land held by barony if containing a significant castle as its caput and if especially large, that is to say consisting of more than about 20 knight's fees (each loosely equivalent to a manor), was termed an "honour""

 

Obviously within the limitations of the game and the interest of gameplay, you aren't required to pay wages for anyone, but Thane is a noble rank, not just a champion of a city.

I am talking about the implementation of the title in this game, not in the real life Scot title which it is based (equivalent to a Count but still not a threat to the actual King as competition for the throne), and certainly not in regard to an English Monarchy.

No, you're not a threat to the king, but could certainly pose a threat to an Earl, or...Jarl.

[kromey]

No, you're not a threat to the king, but could certainly pose a threat to an Earl, or...Jarl.

No more than you were without the title. While it's true that at least in Solitude the city is seemingly run by several thanes assisting the jarl, "thane" is a purely honorary title, and a thane is no more a threat to the jarl's position or to the line of succession thereof than Sir Elton John is to Queen Elizabeth. And even in Solitude there are thanes with no real authority -- the Dovahkiin, for example, has no authority except over the decoration of his/her house.

 

The jarl bestowing the title of thane upon a person is quite simply a means of recognizing said person as having done great deeds in service to the jarl and/or his/her hold (so it makes since that the jarl in Solitude names her advisers thanes). Just like the Queen of England knighting a dude who wears silly sunglasses while playing the piano and singing about candles.

 

 

Now, that being said, I rather like your original idea of the player being granted a small holding (not to be confused with "hold"), and the player being able to build and expand the township they are granted. It is rather like a mod I'll be working on once the CK is finally released, although in my specific example the player is granted Robber's Gorge (southeast of Morthal, a bandit encampment where trade caravans are being ambushed and extorted along a major trade route) and tasked with clearing out the bandits and then securing the route for safe trade, expanding the outpost to eventually a full-fledged town.

 

Mine's decidedly less ambitious than your idea of doing this in every hold in the game, but on the flip side I'm considering letting it grow and expand to the point that the player eventually carves out a whole new hold.