RokHere Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hardcore Mode; Followers with quests, stories, and personalities, and; factions that have relationships of consequence between each other are what i would call, "elements for improving the effects of immersion in contemporary Open World RPGs" that should have been in Skyrim. Decisions you make while becoming Head of Guilds should effect HOW you complete the other Guilds' quests the Civil War quest and the main quest; who will trade with you, and random events ! Agreed, Rimland. Frankly, I haven't finished Skyrim just yet; I'm taking my time and just enjoying the journey, so I have not even joined either the Stormcloaks or the Imperial Legion yet, and all along until now, I thought that joining either of them WILL have consquences in the cities related to either! For example, I thought that if I join the Legion, then I'll see some serious trouble in that city in the east, that's like the capital of Stormcloaks! And crap, if that is not going to happen, then I don't know what to say...wow. I guess Bethesda are getting sloppy, not just in the design & programming, but also in the relationships between the elements of their fictional worlds! This is unacceptable, especially for what we are used to from Bethesda and its strengths as a developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Agreed, Rimland. Frankly, I haven't finished Skyrim just yet; I'm taking my time and just enjoying the journey, so I have not even joined either the Stormcloaks or the Imperial Legion yet, and all along until now, I thought that joining either of them WILL have consquences in the cities related to either! For example, I thought that if I join the Legion, then I'll see some serious trouble in that city in the east, that's like the capital of Stormcloaks! And crap, if that is not going to happen, then I don't know what to say...wow. I guess Bethesda are getting sloppy, not just in the design & programming, but also in the relationships between the elements of their fictional worlds! This is unacceptable, especially for what we are used to from Bethesda and its strengths as a developer. no offense but what did you expect? Joining the Legion would NOT have any consequences in Windhelm until you attack it and vice versa. Edited January 16, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokHere Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Agreed, Rimland. Frankly, I haven't finished Skyrim just yet; I'm taking my time and just enjoying the journey, so I have not even joined either the Stormcloaks or the Imperial Legion yet, and all along until now, I thought that joining either of them WILL have consquences in the cities related to either! For example, I thought that if I join the Legion, then I'll see some serious trouble in that city in the east, that's like the capital of Stormcloaks! And crap, if that is not going to happen, then I don't know what to say...wow. I guess Bethesda are getting sloppy, not just in the design & programming, but also in the relationships between the elements of their fictional worlds! This is unacceptable, especially for what we are used to from Bethesda and its strengths as a developer. no offense but what did you expect? Joining the Legion would NOT have any consequences in Windhelm until you attack it and vice versa. Why wouldn't it?! If you join the Companions, literally hours after you join it, a guard will look at you and address you as the new member of the Companions; if you become the leader of the Companions, literally one day after that happens, in a city at the other end of the world, a guard will address you as the leader of the Companions. Obviously...news in Skyrim travel very fast. So if this is the case with the Companions, as one example, when I join the Imperial Legion, the news don't travel to Windhelm and I don't get attacked by the guards on sight?! I don't have to bribe them, sneak, or get creative so I can continue to conduct business in Windhelm?? How on earth is that exactly?! And more importantly, why am I expected to expect anything different?! I'm shocked by what you said really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I'm shocked that you would expect them to attack you. If you walk into a city with no Legion armor on, and are not doing any sort of violent actions I see no reason for them to attack you. Similarly to how in New Vegas even tough I had done several missions for the NCR I was able to freely walk into Caesar's Legion towns and not have them attack me and vise versa. Beyond that you DO get nasty remarks for wearing Leigon armor in Stormcloak cities and vise versa. I'm shocked by the number of people who hold the "I took a piss on the side of the road thus the entire game should change in some cataclysmic different way because of it" mentality. It is the same illogical thinking seen on the Bioware forums. Just because you do something =/= there is going to be some giant repercussions because of it, and expecting it to is silly. Beyond that the civil war does result in the changing of guards, the changing of Jarls, the occupation of several forts, and many nasty comments from people on the losing side of the war towards you. Edited January 16, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmack Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 for me there are 3 fundamental problems with Skyrim in the context of immersion 1. no Hardcore mode. magicka, potions, and now food can heal. That's nice. how about... Hardcore mode ! 2. followers are "expendable drones." They should have had own separate quests and personalities beyond "mage" and "housecarl" and "barbarian" or "Nord" Bethesda did published New Vegas... 3. most importantly, factions... been helping the Stormcloaks and, no one cares. Legion don't care, and towns associated as being "legion" don't care ! zero consequences... Bethesda did published New Vegas you know ! 3(b). armour ! like in New Vegas which faction armour you wear should have an effect I can begin to express how much I agree, words taken from out of my mouth, However 3b should have some limitations, like specifically crafted disguise armour? I know allot of people weren't keen on the popup all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faifh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Dungeon Siege 1 could do this 2002. Can you elaborate on t hat, faifh? Dungeon Siege marketed a lot with having a continues design, with no map borders and doors. Albeit to be fair, they also had no items you could drop around, so the loading time of a cell of house interior with many items in them does not apply. Additionally on places that entered dungeons they had almost always an elevators that worked in realtime. So why you watched the elevator going, it could load the rest of the level. It was more or less just some trickery. While I see the problem of having all hous interiours in one map with the many, many items a house has, I don't see a real benefit for town maps to be seperate. I mean, it works free, and it works well for not so main cities can be on world map without having to be seperate map. And for the most dungeons, that are typically 3 maps in Skyrim, why? I really don't see that much of a benefit of not putting the whole dungeon in the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faifh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm shocked that you would expect them to attack you. On the other hand, as known Legion officer, the player comes at night to Windhelm, in legion armor, walks right into the Palace of Kinds, and goes back to Ulric private Sleeping chambers, Dagger drawn. Nobody says anything. Probably they just trust the important flag to be set on Ulfric, to be too important than to be simply assassinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokHere Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm shocked that you would expect them to attack you. If you walk into a city with no Legion armor on, and are not doing any sort of violent actions I see no reason for them to attack you. Similarly to how in New Vegas even tough I had done several missions for the NCR I was able to freely walk into Caesar's Legion towns and not have them attack me and vise versa. Beyond that you DO get nasty remarks for wearing Leigon armor in Stormcloak cities and vise versa. I'm shocked by the number of people who hold the "I took a piss on the side of the road thus the entire game should change in some cataclysmic different way because of it" mentality. It is the same illogical thinking seen on the Bioware forums. Just because you do something =/= there is going to be some giant repercussions because of it, and expecting it to is silly. Beyond that the civil war does result in the changing of guards, the changing of Jarls, the occupation of several forts, and many nasty comments from people on the losing side of the war towards you. Dude, you seriously think that the Stormcloaks would simply let a Legion member walk around THEIR city unharmed?? It's not about "the end of the world" effect on the world, but it is just logical thinking that agrees with the spirit of the game and its lore itself. How many times you've met Stormcloak soldiers who tell you that they can't wait until they kill another Imperial, and met Imperial Legion soldiers who told you that they can't wait until they kill another Stormcloak? And if a group of Stormcloak soldiers bumped into a group of Legion soldiers, you expect them to just leave each other be? No fighting and everyone's happy with each other? Everything in the game, so far, had me totally convinced that joining either faction would give me trouble in the enemy faction's main city and have me attacked on sight by the soldiers or guards of the opposite faction, and anything other than that doesn't make any sense to me with all the hatred and enmity I've been hearing about so far. I don't have an "end of the world" mentality for the effects I make in the game or world, but that's really not something bit to expect or such huge changes...it is something very simple...as I said, you simply just become an enemy and get attacked by soldiers or guards of the opposite faction, that's all. And that makes perfect sense. And your logic of "Just because you do something =/= there is going to be some giant repercussions because of it" to justify what you're saying is flawed and irrelevant. If you want to use the correct comparison, then use similar adjectives and then you can see how flawed the logic is, to apply your of-course-obvious equation to what I'm talking about. To clarify, what you said is something true that is aiming to prove something false. So the statement itself "Just because you do something =/= there is going to be some giant repercussions because of it" is true, yes, but you're using it illogically, to prove something not directly related to the statement. And to explain further, use similar adjectives on both sides and then you'll be forced the change the =/= to =. So say "Just because you do something giant...", and then lo and behold, you are forced to say that it indeed equals: there is going to be some giant repercussions because of it, right? After all, that's what would make sense. You do something big, it makes sense to see some big repercussions in a game like Skyrim or Mass Effect, or any other proper RPG game for that matter. You do something tiny, then it makes sense to expect a tiny repercussion too. You do something moderate, then we should expect a moderate repercussion, and so on. And by the same token, I join faction A, which is an enemy of faction B, then logically I must become an enemy of faction B. Pure logic. And it is shocking if you don't see it as logical, or see it as "silly". Weird really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmack Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I suppose another question would be, Why wouldn't they attack you if you paraded into windhelm with your companion both modelling your latest legion armour requesting the age of aggression in candlehearth hall before waltzing up to the palace of kings to say hello to Ulfric. :psyduck: EDIT: Also if you wear Stormcloak armor in solitude and speak to captain aldis (training the archers) he will condemn you for wearing it, if you say your a supporter of the stormcloaks all the guards in solitude attack you, aswell as the imperial soldiers. :thumbsup: Edited January 16, 2012 by scottmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokHere Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm shocked that you would expect them to attack you. On the other hand, as known Legion officer, the player comes at night to Windhelm, in legion armor, walks right into the Palace of Kinds, and goes back to Ulric private Sleeping chambers, Dagger drawn. Nobody says anything. Probably they just trust the important flag to be set on Ulfric, to be too important than to be simply assassinated. Exactly! Thanks, faifh. In a game like Skyrim, and from what we are used to from Bethesda and many other good RPG games, you just don't expect to see that kind of mechanic in the game..it is flawed and sloppy when compared to everything else you'd expect. Indeed, why aren't there guards at the door to Ulfric's private sleeping chambers? Why wouldn't they go "Halt!" at you if you try to enter his room at night while he's sleeping? And how come they wouldn't be suspicious of you if you've joined the Legion and you simply just want to waltz into Windhelm? It isn't a "huge repercussion" really to have trouble with guards and soldiers in a one city when you've made a very pivotal decision in the game, which is to join one of the only two main opposing factions of the fictional world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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