Vault 1080 failing to precombine geometry

[Purr4me]

I think you're right Purr, it would make perfect sense for such a buggy system (and I'm referring to the game and CK collectively) to occasionally pickup erroneous data like this. And that sincerely turns me off working on downtown areas.

 

BTW did you ever happen to make anything for Oblivion flora wise? I'd like to see your work on that :smile: Oblivion Reloaded is pretty cool, full model first person cam and everything.

Yeah sweetie, I can arrange that, broke down the games engine and assets to see it can use what I made.

What the main bsa archive holds already, and it's quite a bit more than the fallout series holds. More there to choose from built in.

 

you need to pick a central spot on load in the game for me to make things to your liking.

[Purr4me]

Tonight or Saturday off work hours I can deal with it. This is the Original version of that game BTW.

 

this "Reloaded thing? i have no idea what that might mean. It's a really old game.

[SMB92]

Cool, I'm a bit flatout until Saturday myself. Link to OB Reloaded. Pretty nifty little mod. I'd like to make it fluffy with flora as I can, it just makes sense in this game.

[SMB92]

Okay, so let's talk about the first issue i think i see when reading your post. Are you precombining every cell in the 25 block radius, or just the cells you edited?

 

Edit: Second, Are you trying to precombine the interior cells as well? I only ask, because some times people don't know that precom/previs is only used for exterior cells. room bounds boxes, and portals are used to optimize interior cells.

 

Edit 2: Do you know that you only have to rebuild Precom data if you remove or hide something in the cell? If you are only adding objects new precom data is unnecessary... Unless you are adding a LOT of stuff, then it can improve performance.

 

Edit 3: I don't think the mod author understood how the room bounds boxes work. Here is a tutorial for optimizing interior cells. I know it's for Skyrim, but the process is the same.

 

Edit 4: So I took some time to create some rooms in the vault to show you what it should look like. I know the video does a good job of explaining it, but Here is a picture of how I have sectioned off the lower half of the vault. Keep in mind that anywhere you have two room boxes against each other you will need a portal. This includes windows, other wise you will just see into the void.

 

I haven't touched any interiors, I am aware it doesn't work. Only exteriors. If I refer to the inside of the Starlight diner, that is part of the exterior cell.

 

I am generating for the 25 cells, however it picks up seemingly important nearby "named" cells and does them too if they have been changed - best example is Starlight mod because even though Drumlin and Bedford were outside the 25 cell block, it picked them up and changed them accordingly - properly at that. I checked this by running only the precombined meshes (no Vis) and saw that it does this everytime. I checked this theory on whether or not generating the combined meshes for an area would produce and different results than doing them individually, edited cells only. The data in xEdit looks exactly the same either way - but like I say it wouldn't surprise me if it occasionally picked up erroneous data, but from these mods I have worked on I have only consistently seen that one bug. Now the other thing being, generating just the meshes does indeed update the timestamp on the XCRI record, but everytime I have checked it has only generated new data for the edited cells. It will change an item in a cell if a new NIF file exists outside of Fallout's BA2's and rewrite/reorder the list though, while that appears to be a bug of reordering the list for no reason it actually indicates a change. That is why precombining the meshes is absolutely required from what I can see, because if a mesh is changed or replaced, especially resized, you will get occlusion bugs because the vanilla precom meshes expect the vanilla model - the game doesn't actually disable precom for a new model - which again is what Beth refers to in their wiki.

 

Also there is a error message in CK occasionally when reloading a plugin, tellling you that it has reverted data to ESMs, I've seen this referred to as "corruption"by some modders, specifically in relation to Beantown Interiors. I followed this bug, it actually never changes any data even when CK tells you it does, period.

 

I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong, but I've spent weeks testing this now, and this is what I see.

[Trosski]

OK, so here are the important cells. Lets look at this in terms of affected cells.

 

So, as you can see... The drive-in building is in cell 13. Let's assume that the new building takes up cell 13 and extends into 14. If those are the only cells you made edits in, then you center on cell 13, and Precombine geometries for that cell, and then do the same for 14. These are the only cells that need new precombine data. The precombine process may affect cells 8, 9, 12, 15, 18, and 19, because rock and tree clusters can span cell borders. this is probably why you are seeing drumlin diner being picked up. if you look in cell 16, you'll see a car which i believe is in the corner of the drumlin diner parking lot.

 

You don't have to precombine the entire 25 cell area. only the cells you made active edits to. you do however need to generate visibility for the entire loaded area. this should help cut down on your file size by quite a bit.

 

As to the wall preculling issue... I'm downloading the mod now to see if I can figure out how to correct that problem.

[Purr4me]

Cool, I'm a bit flatout until Saturday myself. Link to OB Reloaded. Pretty nifty little mod. I'd like to make it fluffy with flora as I can, it just makes sense in this game.

Got that mod. so I have the needed / required data...unless you add things in, this should all I need to have to target things correctly.

[Purr4me]

Update: (https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5325210-oblivion-floral-managment-speedtree-request/&do=findComment&comment=47208145)

 

As requested, a new topic for the request and place for discussions.

 

It's Rare for me to start topics considering the game.

[SMB92]

Update: (https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5325210-oblivion-floral-managment-speedtree-request/&do=findComment&comment=47208145)

 

As requested, a new topic for the request and place for discussions.

 

It's Rare for me to start topics considering the game.

 

Cool, i'll get on to it shortly, just got home

[Purr4me]

 

Update: (https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5325210-oblivion-floral-managment-speedtree-request/&do=findComment&comment=47208145)

 

As requested, a new topic for the request and place for discussions.

 

It's Rare for me to start topics considering the game.

 

Cool, i'll get on to it shortly, just got home

 

No hurry, I'm going thru the underground tut at the moment, using TGM to pile up stuff I have no idea what does what, how ever, this game runs mostly the same way Fo3 does only has all the features enabled in this game fo3 does not.

 

I liked in the other place due to this being fo4 stuff and we should consider Fourm decorum's here.

 

What is it with all this "Rat meat" ? Not a real healthy diet.. :sick:

[SMB92]

OK, so here are the important cells. Lets look at this in terms of affected cells.

 

So, as you can see... The drive-in building is in cell 13. Let's assume that the new building takes up cell 13 and extends into 14. If those are the only cells you made edits in, then you center on cell 13, and Precombine geometries for that cell, and then do the same for 14. These are the only cells that need new precombine data. The precombine process may affect cells 8, 9, 12, 15, 18, and 19, because rock and tree clusters can span cell borders. this is probably why you are seeing drumlin diner being picked up. if you look in cell 16, you'll see a car which i believe is in the corner of the drumlin diner parking lot.

 

You don't have to precombine the entire 25 cell area. only the cells you made active edits to. you do however need to generate visibility for the entire loaded area. this should help cut down on your file size by quite a bit.

 

As to the wall preculling issue... I'm downloading the mod now to see if I can figure out how to correct that problem.

I completely with you, If I was making my own mod I would definitely be doing it this. But what I'm saying is I've gone ahead and generated meshes in the laoded area anyway, and checked the data over and over, and it's only recombined those cells which anything actually changed in anyway, so effectively generating the meshes in the area makes no difference - except that it picked up the Drumlin diner outside of those 25 grids and generated the 5 cells affected all by itself - a major convenience for me. This says that the system in CK is working better than expected which is hard to take in really given thus far dramas. But this is consistent. The caveat to this is, when I generate with new assets present, such as the Summer Overhaul mod's assets installed, then yes all the cells XCRI lists get rearranged because it actually bakes in the new trees - and by that I mean I can fully remove the Summer Overhaul mod and the new trees are still perfectly present in the game (well perfectly no - they revert to vanilla material and texture). This is problem regarding stealing assets if you think about it that way. And also unintended assets. But listen to this - a SMIM type mod is possible because in that case, we don't ever have to generate Vis again which is the sketchy part - we have the option to generate just the meshes alone for the world, which is all we need in that case. And anyone saying consoles wouldn;t be able to get it - well it would be out of there league anyway lol.

 

If I had the assets from such a mod (SMIM) I would gladly run the generation myself. I know it will work. A SMIM type mod won't need Vis because you won't throw out the occlusion with such "small" changes so to speak, as opposed to replacing a dead tree with a massively branched model (which do cause occ. bugs due to horrendoulsy sized fake square branches being used as "occlusion planes" effectively, again, so to speak)

 

Precombining visibility thereafter only ever seems to deal in the occlusion of these new precombined objects Regarding performance this makes sense from my tests because I only ever see the boost when around large groups of objects. This gets the system working as intended but let's say for example we went and added recipes to everything, how much extra performance would this system bring? So either way on that note, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, that's my thinking if you want to go the way of being able to scrap the world and having this system running perfectly in tact. In that case, they might as well not bothered with such a system to begin with. They've balanced the build objects with the plain static objects. So I fear, the majority of the popular vote of users will be to make everything scrappable, over having this system working anyway. Just walking through the commonwealth I've seen how fast a precombined collection loads over individual objects, it is quicker by far. hard to explain that one, you have to look at it yourself really.

 

So you see, like all Bethesda's engines, a deal with the devil must be made somewhere, multiple times at that.