Just relaized something weird....

[thesapien]

Risking being flamed, I kind of think Beth goes too far making so many women so strong no matter their size. In real life, there are average physical differences and is why we don't see Mixed Martial Art men fighting MMA women. Sure, there are always individuals higher or lower on these scales, like men who really would get their butts kicked by certain women, but I'm talking statistics and averages for our primate species. With gorillas, the differences are even more remarkable, but we're not facing reality when we talk like men and women are physically the same on average in our species.

[Snowsong]

The "sexist" question is always kind of interesting to discuss. I'm a woman, and I'm very glad there are several women fighters and bodyguards in the game. (Many of the Housecarls are women, and they are bodyguards.) The over-abundance of male soldiers in the game doesn't bother me because it's realistic.

[Khorak]

While Skyrim is far less sexist than the average RPG (with steel bra "armor") and obviously they tried to put in some female tough warriors or high social status, it is still kinda sexist if you look just a little closer.

 

As you said: Legion is almost mostly male, except Legate Riki and the one in the beginning.

 

That's an Imperial thing. Hold Guards and Stormcloaks are often female. I once invaded an Imperial fort with a Stormcloak Amazon Brigade at my back.

 

Greybeards seems already by its very name to a male exclusive club.

 

They're a monastic order, this is like complaining that there are no male nuns.

 

In the inns I always see the women do the cleaning work, only male cleaner is belathors helper.

 

UESP lists eighteen inns in Skyrim. Women own ten of them. The number is slightly deceptive; one of the male inns has no services because it's a bandit inn you massacre entirely. If you've got a problem with women being cleaners, then talk to their female employers, because I went through the stores as well and what do you know, women galore. As far as just the inns are concerned, women hold that business so firmly by the metaphorical balls that it's starting to edge into literal territory.

 

As highest politicans in civil war - both male (as long you regard Tullius to be the real leader, while Elisif is depicted "weak").

 

Real life is also sexist in that department. We can hardly bag Skyrim for it, frankly. And it's not even a big deal when you look at it more properly. The game starts with two holds ruled by women, who are in fact replaced with more women when their holds change hands. The Imperials install a woman in Dawnstar also if they're victorious. No-one actually cares that Elisif would be High Queen because of her gender, but because she's regarded as generally crap.

 

Majority of guards male.

 

You see they tried to bring in some gender equalness, and I applaud them for trying, but at the end they still kinda failed.

 

They certainly did not fail. Women are well represented in all facets of Skyrim. I slaughter them on as regular basis as I have to deal with them in business or positions of power. Heck, Skyrim even presents a martial culture that doesn't actually have a problem with female rulers or fighters! Sexism is pretty much the last problem you ever see in Skyrim. The first blacksmith you come across in a major city....is a woman! Her huge, beefcake husband is reduced to 'vendor *censored*'! It's glorious! Women are fighting, mining, smithing, ruling, owning....they're more than a little formidable in Skyrim. The gender lines in Skyrim are less defined than in real life. Somehow the medieval, martial culture, traditionalist Nords have more gender oppounity than 21st century modern countries. Work that out.

[Sky999]

Somehow the medieval, martial culture, traditionalist Nords have more gender oppounity than 21st century modern countries. Work that out.

 

This! ^

 

Anyway, I don't want to see armies of female Imperials and bars being tended to by manly male Nords who's aprens are ripping from their muscle mass, sorry if that's 'sexist', but to do otherwise is a real immersion breaker. Some female soldiers are fine, I can accept it's a fantasy world, and I'd actually quite like a sort of 'Amazon' faction, perhaps in a DLC, but an entire army made up 50/50 of men and women.... :facepalm:

[redhorizon09]

Risking being flamed, I kind of think Beth goes too far making so many women so strong no matter their size. In real life, there are average physical differences and is why we don't see Mixed Martial Art men fighting MMA women. Sure, there are always individuals higher or lower on these scales, like men who really would get their butts kicked by certain women, but I'm talking statistics and averages for our primate species. With gorillas, the differences are even more remarkable, but we're not facing reality when we talk like men and women are physically the same on average in our species.

 

Yea I know what you mean. I've seen and met women that I know can seriously beat up a typical guy if they want to, but these women are usually athletic, tall and imposing or large, and trained in some form of martial art. Then again, I'm at odds here on placing my bets at this kind of woman winning in a fight with a man of the same stature and training. Maybe it's because men tend to have more muscle mass than women. I mean, look at those professional body building women. They're strong no doubt, but men who are also professional body builders can lift more than these women.

 

You also mentioned MMA bouts. I can't imagine someone like Cain Velasquez or Shane Carwin losing to a female MMA fighter. I believe that this is probably still a hot bed topic, but I remember there were debates about women in infantry. I'd like to see this be professional researched, experimented, and noted. I want to know if women really are capable of being equal to men on the front lines as a grunt.

[ginnyfizz]

Legate Rikke is a Nord actually...

[Guss]

Risking being flamed, I kind of think Beth goes too far making so many women so strong no matter their size. In real life, there are average physical differences and is why we don't see Mixed Martial Art men fighting MMA women. Sure, there are always individuals higher or lower on these scales, like men who really would get their butts kicked by certain women, but I'm talking statistics and averages for our primate species. With gorillas, the differences are even more remarkable, but we're not facing reality when we talk like men and women are physically the same on average in our species.

 

Yea I know what you mean. I've seen and met women that I know can seriously beat up a typical guy if they want to, but these women are usually athletic, tall and imposing or large, and trained in some form of martial art. Then again, I'm at odds here on placing my bets at this kind of woman winning in a fight with a man of the same stature and training. Maybe it's because men tend to have more muscle mass than women. I mean, look at those professional body building women. They're strong no doubt, but men who are also professional body builders can lift more than these women.

 

You also mentioned MMA bouts. I can't imagine someone like Cain Velasquez or Shane Carwin losing to a female MMA fighter. I believe that this is probably still a hot bed topic, but I remember there were debates about women in infantry. I'd like to see this be professional researched, experimented, and noted. I want to know if women really are capable of being equal to men on the front lines as a grunt.

 

being a body builder doesn't mean you are strong, Note: " body builders go all for muscle, not for strength. i could be mistaken but from what i been told and hearing. " some skilled small guy and/or women can kick some butt. and how you stand, some cant even pick up a person because of you center of mass, seen it and has be proven. a lot of it depends on the person and what they do with themselves. Its a very big topic to cover. :thumbsup:

[InAComaDial999]

The Legion is the only fighting force in Skyrim with no female footsoldiers. There are female guards in every town, plenty of female Stormcloaks, and female Thalmor warriors. This isn't really new; the same was true in Oblivion and Morrowind.

[Khorak]

being a body builder doesn't mean you are strong, Note: " body builders go all for muscle, not for strength. i could be mistaken but from what i been told and hearing. " some skilled small guy and/or women can kick some butt. and how you stand, some cant even pick up a person because of you center of mass, seen it and has be proven. a lot of it depends on the person and what they do with themselves. Its a very big topic to cover. :thumbsup:

 

Uh....muscle is strength, what on Earth are you smoking. Ronnie Coleman is the worlds greatest bodybuilder (by victories) and he deadlifted eight hundred pounds five weeks after the starvation diet of competition. The world record is 1015. For a single lift. Position yourself how you want, you're not lifting that.

 

Bodybuilders are heavily concerned with definition, shape and symmetry, but they are every bit as strong as their physique suggests. They often have to work to their own physical detriment when in competition to make everything pop out for the sheer aesthetics, but they are massively physically powerful. Just because smaller people can make more efficient use of what strength they have with simple leverage and positioning, doesn't suddenly make them as strong as someone who clearly has a load more muscle. Bruce Lee was the inspiration for many bodybuilders for a simple reason; he understood that strength still has to come from somewhere no matter how good your technique, and his jaw droppingly amazing musculature was the result.

[InAComaDial999]

You also mentioned MMA bouts. I can't imagine someone like Cain Velasquez or Shane Carwin losing to a female MMA fighter. I believe that this is probably still a hot bed topic, but I remember there were debates about women in infantry. I'd like to see this be professional researched, experimented, and noted. I want to know if women really are capable of being equal to men on the front lines as a grunt.

 

In the modern world, with mechanized infantry and guns, sure. There were plenty of U.S. women in Iraq who went out on patrol - particularly MPs (Military Police). MPs are not technically "combat arms" and a fair percentage of them are women. They would mount up and go patrol, get into firefights, etc, and acquitted themselves very well. E.g. Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester, Silver Star recipient.

 

Even so, doing convoy escort is a far cry from regular infantry, where you spend long hours on foot carrying a hundred pounds of gear, to say nothing of elite infantry like Rangers. While there are women who can do this, the percentage is much smaller than the percentage of men who can do it. Knowing the social problems that occur in co-ed military units, it simply isn't worth causing that much upheaval just for the sake of admitting the few women who really could do the job into those types of units. That might sound unfair, but the military's job is to be an effective fighting force, not a model society.

 

On the other hand, in a world of combat with sword and shield, in real life women simply would not be able to compete whatsoever. The idea of Aela the Huntress using speed and agility to outfight her slower male opponents is 100% myth. The fact is that swords are heavy, armor is heavy, shields are heavy, and moving quickly with that stuff requires brute strength. With modern nutrition, supplements, and a rigorous workout regimen, it's no doubt possible for a small percentage of women to become capable of fighting this way on a regular basis. In a medieval setting, no chance whatsoever. Even the idea of female archers is mostly a myth. It's one thing to shoot at targets or kill a deer with a modern compound bow. An English longbow had a draw weight up to 185 pounds, which is three to four times that of a modern hunting bow.

 

All that being said, we're talking about a fantasy world. You're playing a character who can breathe fire by speaking in Dragon, and there's no reason your svelte female warrior can't be just as strong as a man twice her weight, whether it's because of fantasy physics, dragon genes, or the hand of Talos giving her strength beyond ordinary mortals.