valve talking about paid mods again

[Fkemman11]

Here's a thought. If Beth/Steam is already making extra money from the sales that these mods create ( like I bought FO4 specifically to mod it)- then why don't they compensate mod authors for their work without charging consumers for it? :rolleyes:

[Reneer]

Here's a thought. If Beth/Steam is already making extra money from the sales that these mods create ( like I bought FO4 specifically to mod it)- then why don't they compensate mod authors for their work without charging consumers for it? :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no data that I know of that supports the idea that mods make a significant change in Bethesda's bottom line. We need only look at how Skyrim sold on consoles back in 2011 - it vastly outsold PC sales by the millions, if not tens of millions. And, as we all know, there was not even the slightest hint of mod support ever coming to consoles back in 2011-2014. Thus we can reasonably assume that:

 

1. Consoles sales outstrip PC sales (which isn't a surprise).

2. Console gamers, until recently (E3 2015?), had no idea that mods would ever come to their systems. But they bought Bethesda games en masse anyway.

3. Because of 2, mods didn't matter to console gamers - only the vanilla game itself did (assuming most console gamers knew beforehand that mods would never come to consoles, a very safe bet).

 

So there is no way to tell how much modding really helps Bethesda's bottom line - my guess would be that it helps a lot less than some people like to think. But, more importantly, even if mod authors helped Bethesda sell more games and there was undeniable proof of it, how would you possibly distribute that revenue back to mod authors in a fair way? By number of downloads? Arthmoor would be a millionaire that way, at least.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Reneer

[Fkemman11]

 

Here's a thought. If Beth/Steam is already making extra money from the sales that these mods create ( like I bought FO4 specifically to mod it)- then why don't they compensate mod authors for their work without charging consumers for it? :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no data that I know of that supports the idea that mods make a significant change in Bethesda's bottom line. We need only look at how Skyrim sold on consoles back in 2011 - it vastly outsold PC sales by the millions, if not tens of millions. And, as we all know, there was not even the slightest hint of mod support ever coming to consoles back in 2011-2014. Thus we can reasonably assume that:

 

1. Consoles sales outstrip PC sales (which isn't a surprise).

2. Console gamers, until recently (E3 2015?), had no idea that mods would ever come to their systems. But they bought Bethesda games en masse anyway.

3. Because of 2, mods didn't matter to console gamers - only the vanilla game itself did (assuming most console gamers knew beforehand that mods would never come to consoles, a very safe bet).

 

So there is no way to tell how much modding really helps Bethesda's bottom line - my guess would be that it helps a lot less than some people like to think. But, more importantly, even if mod authors helped Bethesda sell more games and there was undeniable proof of it, how would you possibly distribute that revenue back to mod authors in a fair way? By number of downloads? Arthmoor would be a millionaire that way, at least.

 

 

Yes. He would be a millionaire- and justifiably so. There will (at some point in time) be a "system" of sorts of paid modding. Better to help decide now what that might be than wait until you have no say in the matter. Determining a fair and equitable system of compensation is vital to the future of mods IMO. Even though there were not modding options for console before- there certainly is now. I would encourage everyone to form an opinion on this issue and then relay it when and where you can. This is obviously an issue that is not going to go away.

[Reneer]

Yes. He would be a millionaire- and justifiably so. There will (at some point in time) be a "system" of sorts of paid modding. Better to help decide now what that might be than wait until you have no say in the matter. Determining a fair and equitable system of compensation is vital to the future of mods IMO. Even though there were not modding options for console before- there certainly is now.

It was already decided by Bethesda / Valve - mod authors would get 25% of the profits that their mods generated, Bethesda would get 45%, and Valve would get 30%. It's a perfectly valid system as far as it goes, though I imagine that when Bethesda brings about paid modding again they will give mod authors more of a percentage because Bethesda will be doing both the IP and the hosting duties and thus can "afford" to give mod authors a greater percentage because all the rest is going directly to them.

 

So I imagine that when Bethesda sets up paid modding again through Bethesda.net, they will offer mod authors 30% or maybe 40%. Heck, t hey may even give mod authors up to 50%.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Reneer

[Fkemman11]

 

Yes. He would be a millionaire- and justifiably so. There will (at some point in time) be a "system" of sorts of paid modding. Better to help decide now what that might be than wait until you have no say in the matter. Determining a fair and equitable system of compensation is vital to the future of mods IMO. Even though there were not modding options for console before- there certainly is now.

It was already decided by Bethesda / Valve - mod authors would get 25% of the profits that their mods generated, Bethesda would get 45%, and Valve would get 30%. It's a perfectly valid system as far as it goes, though I imagine that when Bethesda brings about paid modding again they will give mod authors more of a percentage because Bethesda will be doing both the IP and the hosting duties and thus can "afford" to give mod authors a greater percentage because all the rest is going directly to them.

 

So I imagine that when Bethesda sets up paid modding again through Bethesda.net, they will offer mod authors 30% or maybe 40%.

 

 

Do you think some kind of coalition of mod authors might emerge? Kinda weird to imagine such a thing I admit.

[Reneer]

Do you think some kind of coalition of mod authors might emerge?

It's probably unlikely that something like that will happen. But who knows. Stranger things have happened.

[Fkemman11]

 

Do you think some kind of coalition of mod authors might emerge?

It's probably unlikely that something like that will happen. But who knows. Stranger things have happened.

 

 

How and Whom would determine a mods value? And do you think this is something in response to users or authors?

[Reneer]

How and Whom would determine a mods value? And do you think this is something in response to users or authors?

Obviously a mod author would determine at what price they would want to sell their mod, but it would be up to the mod users to determine whether or not that stated price was worth paying. If a mod author prices their mod too high, few will buy it. A mod author would have to basically guess at what is a good price point or they could try and see what similar things sell for on other content creator markets like the Second Life Marketplace or the Unity Asset Store.

[Zzyxzz]

Oh.... paid modding.... again... well...

 

First of all.... it's a good idea BUT! There are so many issues and problem that come with it... Bethesda does not even have the platform for that!

 

Now imagine the following:

Fallout 4 comes out, fresh, new. We all know the shadow issues.... and a mod named "Shadowboost" comes up. All people get hyped about a mod that improves framerates! BUT! It costs you $20.

Okay... fine... lets pay it. Bethesda, updates their game to a new version and the mod author is "gone". He is no longer interessted in Fallout 4 and leaves. The mod will no longer see any updates.

NOW you have two options: Update the game and scrap the mod, say goodbye to your $20 you spend OR don't update your game to still use your paid mod. We all know, Bethesda loves to break mods with updates...

 

Yes, Shadowboost is special, because it uses .dlls, still there are mods, that rely on something, and if things get scrapped by Bethesda and the mod is bugged/no longer functional, mod users will enrage.

Or what is with mods that rely on other mods? When you mod on top of that mod? What happens when the original mod vanishes and the paid mod on top if it is no longer useable?

 

 

Yes, i really would love to see more donations, as the time i spend is quite big, but i also really enjoy my work. I never did it for the money/donations. I do it for myself and the game i enjoy.

I was broke, really broke(unemployed), when the DLCs came out and there were nice people who donated me the DLCs to work on them. This really made me smile. I love the community for that. Thanks

 

 

Edit:

Something to add, if there are paid mods, we need to talk about piracy, as this will be a huge. Very very huge. I mean, mods are for free and they already get stolen. There will be a "Darknexus" version for paid mods.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Zzyxzz

[Reneer]

Oh.... paid modding.... again... well...

 

First of all.... it's a good idea BUT! There are so many issues and problem that come with it... Bethesda does not even have the platform for that!

 

Now imagine the following:

Fallout 4 comes out, fresh, new. We all know the shadow issues.... and a mod named "Shadowboost" comes up. All people get hyped about a mod that improves framerates! BUT! It costs you $20.

Okay... fine... lets pay it. Bethesda, updates their game to a new version and the mod author is "gone". He is no longer interessted in Fallout 4 and leaves. The mod will no longer see any updates.

NOW you have two options: Update the game and scrap the mod, say goodbye to your $20 you spend OR don't update your game to still use your paid mod. We all know, Bethesda loves to break mods with updates...

No, they don't. :tongue:

 

Bethesda patches break one of two things generally: F4SE and/or Interface mods. F4SE "breaks" every time because Bethesda updates the executable which means F4SE no longer can properly patch itself into the game's memory. And Interface mods break when Bethesda makes changes to the Interface files (Flash files) and things get screwy that way. The vast majority of mods do not break when Bethesda releases a patch for their games.

 

So let's say Shadowboost works on an F4SE-style system (I honestly have no clue how it works under the hood) and when Bethesda updates the Fallout 4 executable the mod breaks and the mod author decides not to update it anymore, leaving the mod in a broken state. This is obviously a bad deal for anyone who bought the mod. But, if you'll remember, when Bethesda opened up paid modding last time for Skyrim, they had stopped patching the game years ago. It is highly doubtful that Bethesda would create a paid mods system while also still updating Fallout 4, but would (and likely will) wait until they are done patching the game before opening up paid mods again. And, in the future, I imagine they would wait to add other games to the paid modding system until after they have stopped patching them as well.

 

Yes, Shadowboost is special, because it uses .dlls, still there are mods, that rely on something, and if things get scrapped by Bethesda and the mod is bugged/no longer functional, mod users will enrage.

Or what is with mods that rely on other mods? When you mod on top of that mod? What happens when the original mod vanishes and the paid mod on top if it is no longer useable?

This scenario is likely questionable, since most mod authors right now specifically do not allow paid mods based on their work. But let's go with it. If Mod B runs on Mod A and Mod A "disappears" or is no longer supported, what does the author of Mod B do? They either have to get permission to include the latest (and unsupported) Mod A alongside their Mod B or, if they can't do that, they have to reverse-engineer Mod A, create new assets, and incorporate everything into Mod B. Another option would be that they (Mod B author) could get permission to carry on developing Mod A, but are required to keep it free for everyone.

 

Edit:

Something to add, if there are paid mods, we need to talk about piracy, as this will be a huge. Very very huge. I mean, mods are for free and they already get stolen. There will be a "Darknexus" version for paid mods.

I don't think there is much to be done about mod piracy. Every DRM system will eventually be hacked. Putting extra effort into developing a DRM system will really just end up being wasted effort. The best mod authors who move into a paid mod system can realistically hope for is a strong connection with the community and hope that the strong connection discourages mod piracy.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Reneer