SSE CTD on Save After Hours of Gameplay

[SevereArtisan]

I'm pretty much in the same situation as the original post right now. Already made a post on Reddit, but I'll repost it/the details here as well.

I'm currently about 157 hours in on my playthrough and started having this issue where I'll CTD when saving. I've been pretty meticulous this time around. I haven't uninstalled any mods this playthrough, minus 3PCO to update to the newest version that came out a few days ago, always keep my load order sorted with LOOT, all plugins cleaned with SSEEdit (Except for Inigo, Palaces and Castles Enhanced and I believe one other mod which are already "cleaned"), no orphaned scripts/instances according to Resaver, etc.

I've also only hard saved this time around (No Quick Saves and only Auto Saves in places like Apocrypha where I can't stop them), making a new hard save whenever I need to save, deleting all but the 6-8 most recent saves every 100-200 saves as well as a few "virgin" saves (Such as the last save from before installing a new mod). I have SKSE clearing invalid registrations as well.

I admittedly did install a few new mods as I went, but they're nothing too major I believe, usually custom followers without any new questlines and such. The only exception is Song of the Green Auri (Who has her own questline and such and I downloaded compatibility patches for mods like Wintersun), which I installed last night, and Raven Castle awhile ago.

This is my current mod load order (I have 248 active plugins). I currently have Frostfall and iNeed disabled in the MCM: https://modwat.ch/u/SevereArtisan/plugins

This is the number of strings, scripts, etc. according to Resaver from my most recent save (File size, 16.9 MB): https://imgur.com/a/y48zzWo

I am, for now, able to save in interior cells which are mostly empty such as Proudspire Manor, but I need to find out what's causing this whole CTD on Saving thing lest it pops up again down the road. I noticed there is a save file that is made when I attempt to save and it fails, but it shows up as a .tmp file with 0 KB rather than a .ess. Does Skyrim SE still have the hard string limit of 65,535 like Oldrim did and is this why I'm crashing when saving? Or is it because I have too many script instances and such?

Edited September 24, 2019 by SevereArtisan

[squireoivanhoe]

Hi SevereArtisan,

 

Sorry that you are experiencing this. It is suspected that the problem is script related, and in particular a script unattaching due to a single instance of overload (possibly hitting a string limit).

 

Did you have any unattached instances in Resaver? If you can determine what mod they came from, following the steps as listed in the fix seems to help most people (it helped me).

[SevereArtisan]

Hi SevereArtisan,

 

Sorry that you are experiencing this. It is suspected that the problem is script related, and in particular a script unattaching due to a single instance of overload (possibly hitting a string limit).

 

Did you have any unattached instances in Resaver? If you can determine what mod they came from, following the steps as listed in the fix seems to help most people (it helped me).

Hello Squire. Thanks for the relatively quick reply!

 

I don't have any unattached instances and such in my save according to Resaver, so unfortunately not. There were around 2-3 in some earlier saves, which I cleaned and used/played from that point on the other day. I did encounter this issue beforehand, but that time was of my own doing I believe (Casting Lamae's Pyre and going into a loading screen by entering a building right after it fired, causing a sort of looping script til the game overloaded and creating artificial save bloat).

 

This time, I haven't really done anything and since Resaver shows no unattached instances and such, I have no idea which specific mod is causing issues other than maybe Song of the Green (Which, after I downloaded, did cause some of my plugins, namely Wintersun and RLO Exteriors, to suddenly become dirty and require cleaning with SSEEdit).

 

I've also seen some players on Reddit playing SE (At least I think it's SE) with saves with even more strings and script instances than mine so is it a specific mod causing me headaches? If so, I'm guessing I should start uninstalling some of the heavier mods and/or mods with a lot of script instances and cleaning the save afterwards? This is pretty much the last resort since, you know, cardinal sin of modding and all, but if I have no choice...

 

EDIT: I found this Reddit post just now (https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/crpjw9/about_ctds_on_save/) and apparently, if a script goes mad, my save will have suspended stacks and a lot of active scripts going on in the save. I think we can cross that off the list as a problem for my save considering the number of active scripts and suspended stacks in my current save is either 0 or a really low number.

 

EDIT 2: I decided to delete all save files in my save folder minus the ones for my current playthrough, including the ones normally invisible when "Show All Saves" is toggled off. I think this fixed my issue, but I'll only know for sure by continuing to play.

Edited September 25, 2019 by SevereArtisan

[squireoivanhoe]

No problem SevereArtisan. Thanks for the link to that post, that confirms a lot of the suspicions that we have on this thread. A script going mad in conjunction with a long playtime appears to be the most common manifestation (as it slowly goes mad).

 

I'm curious if there are any undefined elements in your save as well? Just for data.

 

Yes, we haven't seen a hard number limit on strings/script instances, it just seems to depend on a single point in a single save where the engine couldn't take it, which then lingers like a poison.

 

I haven't yet seen anyone have success from deleting files in the save folder with SSE.

 

Do you still have those old saves that you cleaned? I would load that in Resaver because the mod that launched those is probably your culprit (again, not a problem with the mod, just a particular instance/combo). After that I would start with Song of the Green since it is the only one which has acted funny so far. The mere act of removing a mod seems to allow saving for anywhere from a few minutes up to 5 hours, so I would try to play for that time and see if it happens afterwards. Wintersun and RLO Exteriors might be your next, as they might have accidentally left something around even after cleaning.

 

Let me know how it goes!

[SevereArtisan]

No problem SevereArtisan. Thanks for the link to that post, that confirms a lot of the suspicions that we have on this thread. A script going mad in conjunction with a long playtime appears to be the most common manifestation (as it slowly goes mad).

 

I'm curious if there are any undefined elements in your save as well? Just for data.

 

Yes, we haven't seen a hard number limit on strings/script instances, it just seems to depend on a single point in a single save where the engine couldn't take it, which then lingers like a poison.

 

I haven't yet seen anyone have success from deleting files in the save folder with SSE.

 

Do you still have those old saves that you cleaned? I would load that in Resaver because the mod that launched those is probably your culprit (again, not a problem with the mod, just a particular instance/combo). After that I would start with Song of the Green since it is the only one which has acted funny so far. The mere act of removing a mod seems to allow saving for anywhere from a few minutes up to 5 hours, so I would try to play for that time and see if it happens afterwards. Wintersun and RLO Exteriors might be your next, as they might have accidentally left something around even after cleaning.

 

Let me know how it goes!

No problem at all! I have that link bookmarked myself in case things go wrong again. And if things go wrong again, I'll probably try the nuclear option in the post as a last resort. After I deleted all the excess saves in my folder, I can save normally again, at least for now. Just to be doubly safe, I'm mostly saving in interior cells (My latest save, for instance, is in that one small inn north of Bruma in Beyond Skyrim - Bruma). So far, this has been successful.

 

The first time things went wrong with me, it probably was that, a script going mad. Though at that time, it was by my own doing (Lamae's Pyre from Sacrosanct. Don't go into a building/load screen until it finishes firing) and loading a slightly earlier save from before I did that let me continue as usual up until the problem popped up again this time.

 

Ah okay. I hope that 65,535 string limit isn't applicable for SE then. And I hope SSE Engine Fixes or whatever fixes that if so. I do have that downloaded.

 

Yeah, I have those old saves for now at least. Here's an Imgur link with two of my saves (https://imgur.com/a/aIErW7I).

 

The first picture is the most recent one, Save 813, made after I deleted all my excess saves and such. As you can see, no undefined elements. The two pictures below that is the old save or one of them anyways, Save 774, with the undefined elements/instances. It seems like those belong to 3PCO (3rd Person Camera Overhaul), which I uninstalled the other day to upgrade to the newest version, as per the exact instructions of the mod creator for that mod.

 

EDIT: Problem popped up again. Tried saving in Cathedral of St. Martin in Bruma, crashed again. I guess I'll try that nuclear option now from that Reddit post.

Edited September 25, 2019 by SevereArtisan

[joemodda]

 

EDIT: I found this Reddit post just now (https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/crpjw9/about_ctds_on_save/) and apparently, if a script goes mad, my save will have suspended stacks and a lot of active scripts going on in the save. I think we can cross that off the list as a problem for my save considering the number of active scripts and suspended stacks in my current save is either 0 or a really low number.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this with us. Now that I look at it, I do have a lot of residual save files in the save folder (each file is 20mb, and the folder is a couple gigabytes at least...)

 

I've been playing Morroblivion lately, and I have actually experienced a few crash on saves... never had an issue like that until this playthrough, it's typically a crash on load that gives the headaches. Reading that post, it's probably related to performance issues/bugs with scripts or something... Is there a tool like Resaver for Oblivion?

[squireoivanhoe]

Not that I know of, but I haven't played Oblivion in a long time. If I remember correctly Oblivion did fine at cleaning its own orphaned scripts.

[SevereArtisan]

Just a head's up, for that deleting scripts in Resaver last resort option mentioned in the Reddit post, stuff can get broken afterwards besides what is mentioned.

Like for me, Serana's animations became kind of wonky, there's a dialogue option for her to "Come with me" whether she's following me or not which doesn't do anything (She CAN follow me thanks to AFT, but still), and followers, if you use AFT's outfit management system, gets broken (They only stick to Standard outfits. I haven't tried restarting Outfit Management for an NPC entirely though). Some MCM data and such and mods got reset as well. It was like starting a new game but without actually starting a new game, complete with mods installing/reinstalling themselves (So if you're using, say, Ordinator, your perks will get reset. Prepare for that beforehand).

I was able to save out, in say, the open world afterwards and my save file went from 16-17 MB in size all the way down to 9 (Though that number shot back up to 13 by the time I finished giving myself my perks and such back and finished reconfiguring my stuff in the MCM).

I found another post here on the forums with a guy having the same issue (https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/6100608-ctd-on-save-research-speculation-included/) and for now, I'm moving my character to UnOwnedCell whenever I have to save.

Edited September 25, 2019 by SevereArtisan

[aers]

Hey guys.

 

SevereArtisan gave me a crash log for his crash-on-save and in his case the game is crashing in LZ4 compression code while writing the save. Skyrim SE compresses parts of its save games - note that LE _doesnt_ do this at all.

 

If you add the following to your ini:

 

[saveGame]

uiCompression=0

 

It will disable compression. No idea if this will allow the game to save but it's probably worth a shot for the people experiencing this.

[SevereArtisan]

Hey guys.

 

SevereArtisan gave me a crash log for his crash-on-save and in his case the game is crashing in LZ4 compression code while writing the save. Skyrim SE compresses parts of its save games - note that LE _doesnt_ do this at all.

 

If you add the following to your ini:

 

[saveGame]

uiCompression=0

 

It will disable compression. No idea if this will allow the game to save but it's probably worth a shot for the people experiencing this.

 

I just tested it out, I was able to successfully save in the same area of the game after doing the same stuff no less (Saved outdoors in Bruma. Fast travelled to Western Watchtower, turned in a quest, killed a few enemies, tried saving, and I kept CTDing on save up until trying this).

I tested both uiCompression=0 and uiCompression=1 and both of them worked. My save file quadrupled in size with 0 though (16.9 or so MB to 65 something), whereas with 1, my save file actually lowered itself in size (From 16 to 13).

I don't know if this is a permanent fix however, so I'll keep playing (With uiCompression=1 anyways) to find out and will edit this post or post accordingly with any updates.

 

EDIT: While I was able to successfully save with these commands, Resaver seems to be unable to read these saves for whatever reason (I have the latest version too). I got these popups when I tried opening them up in Resaver (Save 830 is the save made using uiCompression=0, 831 is for uiCompression=1). https://imgur.com/a/AfWUlGp

 

EDIT 2: Bad news. I CTD whenever I try to load those saves made using uiCompression. So while saving might be successful, loading is another story it seems.

Edited September 27, 2019 by SevereArtisan