jmalkavian Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 @alienravensorry but why is being a werewolf bad exactly?Is Hircine Evil? or Good? & doesn't Hircine take souls - thus preventing them to go to Sovngard? ?When transforming to a werewolf via the companions is there not a period of "not remembering" what happened?[could have killed an innocent]---I ask as am not sure as have only completed the companions once & won't do it again until the "conversation bug" is fixed {it was incredibly difficult to do while being interrupted every 5 seconds} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienraven Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 @alienravensorry but why is being a werewolf bad exactly?Is Hircine Evil? or Good? & doesn't Hircine take souls - thus preventing them to go to Sovngard? ?When transforming to a werewolf via the companions is there not a period of "not remembering" what happened?[could have killed an innocent]---I ask as am not sure as have only completed the companions once & won't do it again until the "conversation bug" is fixed {it was incredibly difficult to do while being interrupted every 5 seconds} Hircine is'nt good or evil really, hes chaotic neutral as are quite a few of the deadra (namely Malacath, Sanguine, Sheogoth, Nocturnal, Clavicus vile, Azura and auguably Hermaeus Mora )yes HIrcine takes souls but he doe'snt take them to hell he takes them to his hunting ground where they get to hunt alongside him forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmalkavian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 @alienravensorry but why is being a werewolf bad exactly?Is Hircine Evil? or Good? & doesn't Hircine take souls - thus preventing them to go to Sovngard? ?When transforming to a werewolf via the companions is there not a period of "not remembering" what happened?[could have killed an innocent]---I ask as am not sure as have only completed the companions once & won't do it again until the "conversation bug" is fixed {it was incredibly difficult to do while being interrupted every 5 seconds} Hircine is'nt good or evil really, hes chaotic neutral as are quite a few of the deadra (namely Malacath, Sanguine, Sheogoth, Nocturnal, Clavicus vile, Azura and auguably Hermaeus Mora )yes HIrcine takes souls but he doe'snt take them to hell he takes them to his hunting ground where they get to hunt alongside him forever. Isn't one of the companions Kodlak? who wants his soul to go to Sovngard...But because he's a werewolf he cannot...wouldn't that make Hircine to some degree "evil" by ensnaring his soul?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienraven Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Isn't one of the companions Kodlak? who wants his soul to go to Sovngard...But because he's a werewolf he cannot...wouldn't that make Hircine to some degree "evil" by ensnaring his soul?. Evil? no a**hole maybe, he did'nt make Kodlak become a werewolf he could have refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck1st Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Isn't one of the companions Kodlak? who wants his soul to go to Sovngard...But because he's a werewolf he cannot...wouldn't that make Hircine to some degree "evil" by ensnaring his soul?. Evil? no a**hole maybe, he did'nt make Kodlak become a werewolf he could have refused. So let me get this straight the OP wants to be able to sit down and have milk and cookies with the foresworn; kill of the DB and the TG and have tea and crimpets with the silver hands who are known bandits after it's al said and done right? Sounds like it would make for a boring game. And now I need to go kills some foresworn. <EG> On a more serious note here I understand what the OP is saying about the lack of choices. but will have to admit that the reason for which I enjoy playing the game is due to the fact it lets me do things for which I wouldn't normally do in real life Like robbing from folks and killing innocent ones. After all I'm a simple easy going go in real life. But if there were more choices in the game I think it would make it allot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercami Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I wouldn't really think that being a Vampire or Werewolf would make you "evil". It would be possible for someone to become one from being involved in a fight against one. Also the Companions seem to be almost... good? I don't seem them running around on a rampage killing people on the streets in Whiterun, and they seem like they've helped some people. Also I have some new ideas for the DB mod but i'm going to stop hijacking the thread with walls of text and make a WIP thread for the nexus. I already have one on Beth's forums but I think it would be nice to have one in both places. hopefully I'll work on that tomorrow though I will be busy for most of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IxionInc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think the reason Skyrim has much more morally ambiguous choices is its setting. Skyrim is a land of survival, where heroes are rare and survivors must do whatever it takes to survive. A lot of the choices you view as evil, the characters in Skyrim would simply view as survival, the necessary evil for their continued existence. Except "Skyrim" didn't get to write its own quests. A human being wrote them, and they didn't HAVE to force you to play an evil character. There would have been no uproar had they given us a choice on this. In fact, they would have made a lot more people happy. It's really very simple. Why am I forced to kill Grelod in order to be able to play the Dark Brotherhood quest line? It has nothing to do with the "harshness" of life in Skyrim. Someone simply wrote the quest that way and gave us no other choice. You don't need to make up artificial reasons about how this came about. If you really DON'T want to kill Grelod, then I guess you're not going to be an assassin then, since they are inherently "evil" in TES. To be honest, I do think that there should have been some alternate options to the quest lines, such as the ability to join up with the Silver Hand, or meet up with Maven Black-Briar's nemesis and join them, but I couldn't give two shits less about being a good character. What does get me is that you're complaining about the developers "Forcing" you to be evil, when they're not. It's an open freaking world. Just like if I wanted to be an evil character, I couldn't turn around and do the good s***, you can't be a good character and do the evil s*** if you're morally obligated to it. So that means missing out on the Dark Brotherhood quests. That means missing out on the Thieve's Guild. That means passing on becoming a werewolf. If you're really going to strive roleplay a "good" character, without imagining any reason behind any morally ambiguous sacrifices or risks, then you're going to have to keep yourself exempt from those quests. Maybe they wrote the quests that way because they *wanted* it to be a do or don't decision. It's not like one of the developers said "Hey, I really hate people like Galadrew who want to be little-goodie-twoshoes in the homeland of the Nords, so I'm just gonna give him a big 'f*** you',".But oh no, it's not like you can't take down the Thieve's Guild because of Maven's resources and sociopathic cunning, no, it's gotta be because no one wants me to be good!It's not that I can't join the Vigilant of Stendarr because I'm Dragonborn and those overzealous crusaders might label me as evil if they found out, no, it's cause Bethesda hates good players! TL;DR, if you want to be a good character, then do without. The definition of being good is through exemption and devout dedication to those beliefs of righteousness. All in all, this is a request thread, and it's your request. So if it gets made, so be it. But though I somewhat agree there should be multiple choices in the guild quests, I find this request dull, and the fact that you seem to be calling out the devs childish. If you want to be a goodie-twoshoes lap-dog for the Emperor, then go play Oblivion. That's all I can say. Also the Companions seem to be almost... good? I don't seem them running around on a rampage killing people on the streets in Whiterun, and they seem like they've helped some people. Actually, no. They're mercenaries through and through. The very first quest you do for them is beat the s*** out of Dannica Pure-Spring, that priest of Arkay in Whiterun, for not paying a fine or something.I wouldn't classify berating a priestess a good choice. Edited February 2, 2012 by IxionInc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmalkavian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 @MercamiI wouldn't really think that being a Vampire or Werewolf would make you "evil". It would be possible for someone to become one from being involved in a fight against one.Try telling that to the city if you're a Vampire and haven't "fed" for 72 hours. @redneck1stSo let me get this straight the OP wants to be able to sit down and have milk and cookies with the foresworn; kill of the DB and the TG and have tea and crimpets with the silver hands who are known bandits after it's al said and done right? Sounds like it would make for a boring game. And now I need to go kills some foresworn. <EG> Only if they've got "Rummed Coffee"...and straight Rum with the Foresworn females!. @alienravenHircine is'nt good or evil really, hes chaotic neutral Evil? no a**hole maybe, he did'nt make Kodlak become a werewolf he could have refused.If Hircine's neutral...why would he give a s**t about Kodlak's soul?...or does Chaotic==a**hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IxionInc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) If Hircine's neutral...why would he give a s**t about Kodlak's soul?...or does Chaotic==a**hole? Yes. That's almost exactly what that alignment means. As I can plainly tell you're not familiar with the classic D&D alignment system, lemme tell you about it: There's two axis. One is Order and Chaos, the other is Good and Evil Now, basically, Chaotic Good is your renegade cop. Lawful Good is your law-abiding, warrant toting enforcer. Neutral Good is somewhere inbetween. Same can be said about Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil. So in essence, yes, Hircine IS an a**hole. Neutrality is essentially not giving a s***. CHAOTIC Neutral is not giving a s*** at others' expense. Edited February 2, 2012 by IxionInc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmalkavian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If Hircine's neutral...why would he give a s**t about Kodlak's soul?...or does Chaotic==a**hole? Yes. That's almost exactly what that alignment means. As I can plainly tell you're not familiar with the classic D&D alignment system, lemme tell you about it: There's two axis. One is Order and Chaos, the other is Good and Evil Now, basically, Chaotic Good is your renegade cop. Lawful Good is your law-abiding, warrant toting enforcer. Neutral Good is somewhere inbetween. Same can be said about Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil. So in essence, yes, Hircine IS an a**hole. Neutrality is essentially not giving a s***. CHAOTIC Neutral is not giving a s*** at others' expense.TY that's a very good explanation :thumbsup:. So it seems my pc was an evil a**hole every time she killed all her companions in NWN2oc :devil::excl: :laugh:.tc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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