Mercami Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I've finished moving all of my alternate Destroy the Dark Brotherhood story over to the WIP thread. I've also added a lot more to the story check it out and let me know what you guys think of it. Please leave any comments about it in it's own thread I'll be checking that one much more often. Thanks guys. :) Edited February 5, 2012 by Mercami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76NukaGirl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I agree. The Dragonborne is supposed to be a saviour right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadrew Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 The only way to get out of that house is to kill the vigilant. He attacks you if you don't attack first, so it is self-defense. And later on, when you are really required to do a bad thing in order to complete that questline, nobody forces you to do that. Just leave the quest unfinished. The Abandoned House quest in Markarth is a good example of the sort of "raidroaded into evil" that we're talking about. Here we are talking about whether there's guilt or not in killing the priest who gets trapped with us in the house. But like a good magician whose hands distract us from what he's actually doing, we don't even talk about the guy pulling strings on top of the puppet show: The quest writer. Focus on him for a moment. It's obvious the priest is a good man who goes around trying to do good deeds for people. The loud, evil voice resonating in the house and making the house shake violently gets into the priest's head and drives him to madness. That voice is the voice of the quest writer. He's the one who's having a great time by creating this situation. You took the quest in good faith hoping to also do a good deed by ridding the house of undead. Instead you find the doors are locked and you can't get out of the house to avoid killing the priest. Although technically you're guiltless because he attacked first, you still feel he's an innocent man who's been driven to madness by an evil force. Again you must kill someone you don't want to kill to get out of trap for which there's no other way out. If this were an isolated incident we could scratch it off as an oddity, but it isn't. This happens over and over in Skyrim. What we have here is a situation where someone seems to be role playing a psycho who gets his kicks by forcing players to commit evil acts. Yes, ironically, it is the quest writer who gets some role playing in while we get none. I feel as though I paid for this game to entertain him, and he never gave any thought as to whether I would be entertained or not. The rest of the team in Skyrim I have nothing but praise for. They did a great job and kudos to them all around. They're the only reason I still play this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katling Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 In regards to the DB - Grelod thing. I would have liked to have seen an alternative something along the lines of - Go speak to the kid - tell him you'll deal with it. Then you get a choice. You can either kill her and trigger the DB quest line or you can do something to expose Grelod's cruelty to the Jarl and have her arrested and dealt with by the law. Imprisoned or even lawfully executed since Skyrim has the death penalty. As a result of taking the second path, you get a subsequent quest line to destroy the DB which would hopefully be an equally long and involved quest rather than just 'kill Astrid'. Some of the 'I like to play evil or morally ambiguous characters' seem to think that having a choice like that would rob them of some kind of enjoyment. Or at least that's what I can gather out of their virtual eye-rolling at the OP's suggestion. I'm not sure how they draw that particular conclusion. No one's talking about taking out the existing DB storyline. Doing something like this does nothing to 'ruin' their game experience because they don't have to choose the more 'lawful' option if they don't want to. All it does is add to the overall game experience for everyone by giving a genuine choice. After all, some of us like to try different play throughs. A morally ambiguous rogue. A noble and good warrior. An evil mage. And so on and so forth. Why should I be limited on my 'good character' playthrough? I should have an equally rich gaming experience as I had in my 'morally ambiguous rogue' playthrough. Variety is an excellent thing. And the spice of life apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercami Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 In regards to the DB - Grelod thing. I would have liked to have seen an alternative something along the lines of - Go speak to the kid - tell him you'll deal with it. Then you get a choice. You can either kill her and trigger the DB quest line or you can do something to expose Grelod's cruelty to the Jarl and have her arrested and dealt with by the law. Imprisoned or even lawfully executed since Skyrim has the death penalty. As a result of taking the second path, you get a subsequent quest line to destroy the DB which would hopefully be an equally long and involved quest rather than just 'kill Astrid'. I'm working on a mod to do this. It used to be in this thread but I moved it out to http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/549042-wip-destroy-the-dark-brotherhood-improved/ It's still a WIP so any suggestions to improve it would be welcome. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystra007 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) I think this thread would be better if there was lore-friendly alternatives. Maybe a format like this: Quest X------------Lore-friendly 'good' alternative:Explanation Why it makes sense given the complete questWhy some aspects doesn't make sense given the complete quest (ex: for the abandoned quest itmight be that a daedric prince is much more powerful than you and can force his will on you). Lore-friendly 'neutral' alternative:... Lore-friendly 'evil' alternative?? and so on. It's much more easy for a modder if there is a clear plan of what he has to do to helpwith a request and it will avoid the "your mod doesn't respect tamriel lore" comments later. Personally I'd like all the daedric quests to have alternatives like the Vaermina quest. I alsothink that you should be able to abandon misc quest so they don't clutter your journal if youdon't want to do them - I'm looking at you "bring me 3 flawless gems worth 2000 septims and your reward is 50 septims". Also if you hire me to clear a mine from mercernaries that demandpayment to leave and I am rewarded me with gold - why didn't you just pay them in the first place insteadof wasting my time... Edited February 5, 2012 by Mystra007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricshan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I didn't really want to kill the old woman either, I mean she can be as evil as hell but she wasn't a witch or daedra... she was a nasty old woman. You can't scare her off, or make her change her ways, or anything. So you kill her. So much for freedom of choice? Yeah, the method of attracting the attention of the Dark Brotherhood could have been thought out better. For example, faking a murder. BTW, a good character would destroy the assassin cult, not join it. not become a werewolf and go slaughtering vampire hunters *werewolf hunters. If you looked around Silver Hand forts and read books/pieces of paper better, you would see that the Silver Hands are actually bad guys. They torture and conduct experiments on werewolves. And not all werewolves are inherently evil (are the Companions evil?), they are simply bound by the terms of Hircine's "Daedric deal". oh no i want to be a silver hand so badly!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottym23 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) True that! Minor spoilers ahead, watch out: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's some things that honestly pisses me off... 1) You MUST enter the Thieves Guild to be able to do the main quest, which involves framing an innocent sales man into jail. I didn't want to do that! 2) When the opponent is weak and says "Mercy!", it doesn't matter, you can't let him live, because as soon as he gets up again he WILL attack you. 3) Get an Unusual Gem = You'll be stuck with it forever until you join the Thieves Guild. 4) Silver Hand is a group of people who fights Vampires, werewolfs and other monsters. They're shown as bandits..... I'm my opinion the Silver Hand should be a legit group, and once you find out the Companions Circle is filled with Werewolfs you could choose whether or not to become a monster. My suggestion of options: "Yes, turn me into a werewolf. " (you continue on the companions)"I despise this!" (You turn against the companions, later become a member of the Silverhand, at the end of the quest Yorvaskar becomes a "Silver Hand" base) Why not? The game FORCES you to become wherewolf if you want to continue the "Warriors' quest line".... ACTUALLY you didn't need to do that. There's a speech option in the beginning that goes something like, "Finding the Old man is more important then this scheme." and if you are successful you don't have to do the frame the innocent merchant quest. Also you get no penalties and the quest continues if you fail to frame the guy. He just says, "Oh well, that's basically the luck we've been having for some time. It was worth a shot." Edited February 5, 2012 by scottym23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelerasRingor Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I agree. I simply cannot get into this game no matter how many mods I install because of the lack of "good" choices. I really hope someone does alternate quests to the thief's guild and deadric quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingJackboots Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) No such things as good coves who run around stomping folk, adventurers in any plane are evil in general neutral at best the grandiose gits that call em' self good are just trying not to feel guilty about why all their shiny jink is covered in blood if you ask me.If someone wanted to be a good berk they woulda started family and worked on a business not picking up a sticker to put in every sod that disagreed with em' into the dead book! The dragonborn is a pure freaking evil basher if I've ever seen one myself- not some savior god king that the bards diddle about; after all he's got the soul of a dragon probably wanted that rainbow place all to em' self and get some new songs sung about em too. Call me a bleaker if ya like but that's how I sees it. Edited March 7, 2012 by JumpingJackboots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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