Stormcloaks or empire?

[waxxin]

Hey if a Government is not capable of representing the will of its people, it loses the ability to lead its people. Regardless of how much power it has, or what powers are against it.

 

Nords are a tough as nails race..plus they'd be fighting a defensive war in a rather inhospitable region. I wager they would be fine against the Thalmor

 

The Enemy of my Enemy is still....can still be my enemy.

[JanusForbeare]

Why would you ally? It depends really, not everyone is you. You won't ally with the Aldmeri whatever happens. But we can't say that about whoever becomes the next emperor. Some people would slit their own mother's throats for more power, or for grievances or whatever (maybe I watch too many movies). But It would still be a possibility.

 

This talk about the Empire allying itself with the Aldmeri Dominion is ridiculous. It's like saying that the United States in the 1960s had a chance of an alliance with the Soviet Union. Tamriel in the early Fourth Era is mostly divided between two major powers (The Empire and the Dominion) with two smaller buffer states (Hammerfell and Blackmarsh/Argonian-occupied Morrowind) on either flank. Under these circumstances, does it stand to reason that the two major powers would ally together against the buffer states? Of course not. If you don't understand why not, read 'The Prince' by Machiavelli (particularly the example of the Venetians in chapter 21, 'How a Prince Must Act to Win Honor').

[chanchan05]

Why would you ally? It depends really, not everyone is you. You won't ally with the Aldmeri whatever happens. But we can't say that about whoever becomes the next emperor. Some people would slit their own mother's throats for more power, or for grievances or whatever (maybe I watch too many movies). But It would still be a possibility.

 

This talk about the Empire allying itself with the Aldmeri Dominion is ridiculous. It's like saying that the United States in the 1960s had a chance of an alliance with the Soviet Union. Tamriel in the early Fourth Era is mostly divided between two major powers (The Empire and the Dominion) with two smaller buffer states (Hammerfell and Blackmarsh/Argonian-occupied Morrowind) on either flank. Under these circumstances, does it stand to reason that the two major powers would ally together against the buffer states? Of course not. If you don't understand why not, read 'The Prince' by Machiavelli (particularly the example of the Venetians in chapter 21, 'How a Prince Must Act to Win Honor').

 

Again, as I said, its just a possibility, depending on who becomes emperor. The Aldmeri may have enough influence behind the scenes to work it out they get an ally or asset there. I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm throwing the possibility. Or maybe I just read too much Song of Ice and Fire.

 

The US and Soviet analogy is flawed though. Even before WWII they already hated each other, but became allies in the face of a common enemy.

[Scribblesix]

Why would you ally? It depends really, not everyone is you. You won't ally with the Aldmeri whatever happens. But we can't say that about whoever becomes the next emperor. Some people would slit their own mother's throats for more power, or for grievances or whatever (maybe I watch too many movies). But It would still be a possibility.

 

This talk about the Empire allying itself with the Aldmeri Dominion is ridiculous. It's like saying that the United States in the 1960s had a chance of an alliance with the Soviet Union. Tamriel in the early Fourth Era is mostly divided between two major powers (The Empire and the Dominion) with two smaller buffer states (Hammerfell and Blackmarsh/Argonian-occupied Morrowind) on either flank. Under these circumstances, does it stand to reason that the two major powers would ally together against the buffer states? Of course not. If you don't understand why not, read 'The Prince' by Machiavelli (particularly the example of the Venetians in chapter 21, 'How a Prince Must Act to Win Honor').

 

Again, as I said, its just a possibility, depending on who becomes emperor. The Aldmeri may have enough influence behind the scenes to work it out they get an ally or asset there. I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm throwing the possibility. Or maybe I just read too much Song of Ice and Fire.

 

The US and Soviet analogy is flawed though. Even before WWII they already hated each other, but became allies in the face of a common enemy.

 

 

It's sillier than you think, the Thalmor would have to march through the empire to get to Skyrim, which is a very high risk strategy for both parties. The Crusades illustrate this point very well. The European kingdoms who suffered the crusading 'armies' to march through their territories saw their lands ravaged and cities often sacked. Likewise the crusaders themselves where often subject to imprisonment and ransom. Politically it's just daft; imagine the USSR having just a humiliating war to China and having the latter dictate a new communist manifesto invite the PRC to march through retake the Ukraine. or 1930's Germany ask the french to attack the Sudetenland. beggars belief.

[terzho]

^^^ Totally agree with that. If you actually look at the Map of Tamriel the Summerset Isles is an island bellow the the continent. Even with their allies in Vallenwood and Eleswyr they still have to go through Cyrodil and an extremely hostile Hammerfell to get to Skyrim. Just saying I don't know why everyone is saying Skyrim needs a broken Cyrodil to defeat the Aldemeri dominion. Edited January 29, 2012 by terzho

[Matth85]

Empire.

 

Because chances say they can stand up to the Thalmor, and protect Tamriel.

Basically, I choose the empire -- which is multiple provinces, instead of Stormcloak -- which is only Skyrim.

[Dambuster]

First of all I think it is mighty impressive of Bethesda to come up with this reasonably interesting political situation which has arisen to probably over 500 posts on the subject in this forum alone.

In my opinion neither is a particularly advantageous position in the eventual fight against the Thalmor if anything the Empire should allow Skyrim to secede from them (though perhaps a quiet assassination of Ulfric should be carried out first). Under the condition of Skyrim independence there would some kind of secret treaty (consider the thousands made in and around WWI) that would pledge the support of Skyrim's armies if the Empire entered a war with the Thalmor.

If taking a side if forced then to destroy the Thalmor (a good eventual aim) I would suggest siding with the Empire as the Stormcloaks are not experienced infrastructure builders like the Imperials and it would take them some time to raise an army of any significance while keeping some level of production up at home. The racism of the stormcloaks harm them a lot and not just because I don't like racists. One can assume the Stormcloaks may well drive out the elven races from Skyrim losing a large farming community and sacrificing much of the chance of an alliance with the still Dark elf controlled northern Morrowind. The nords show utter disdain for Argonians and Khajiit scuppering many allegiances they can make with them. Nor are they exactly keen on the Redguards. You could suggest that through utter hatred of the Thalmor an allegiance could be seen but what of the end of the war surely both Skyrim and Cyrodil would be completely descimated, the Redguards are already weakened though their war with the Thalmor. I can see the beginning of Argonian dominance if the Thalmor are defeated by an un-united Empire while the Empire could probably hold some power if it fought the Thalmor as a united force.

[kallum260]

Empire, without them there would be no order :P

[Scribblesix]

First of all I think it is mighty impressive of Bethesda to come up with this reasonably interesting political situation which has arisen to probably over 500 posts on the subject in this forum alone.

In my opinion neither is a particularly advantageous position in the eventual fight against the Thalmor if anything the Empire should allow Skyrim to secede from them (though perhaps a quiet assassination of Ulfric should be carried out first). Under the condition of Skyrim independence there would some kind of secret treaty (consider the thousands made in and around WWI) that would pledge the support of Skyrim's armies if the Empire entered a war with the Thalmor.

If taking a side if forced then to destroy the Thalmor (a good eventual aim) I would suggest siding with the Empire as the Stormcloaks are not experienced infrastructure builders like the Imperials and it would take them some time to raise an army of any significance while keeping some level of production up at home. The racism of the stormcloaks harm them a lot and not just because I don't like racists. One can assume the Stormcloaks may well drive out the elven races from Skyrim losing a large farming community and sacrificing much of the chance of an alliance with the still Dark elf controlled northern Morrowind. The nords show utter disdain for Argonians and Khajiit scuppering many allegiances they can make with them. Nor are they exactly keen on the Redguards. You could suggest that through utter hatred of the Thalmor an allegiance could be seen but what of the end of the war surely both Skyrim and Cyrodil would be completely descimated, the Redguards are already weakened though their war with the Thalmor. I can see the beginning of Argonian dominance if the Thalmor are defeated by an un-united Empire while the Empire could probably hold some power if it fought the Thalmor as a united force.

 

Two small things to consider; the non Nordic races don't really contribute anything in terms of primary production (farming and the like), though they may produce significant amounts of manufactured goods and are unquestionably important in trade. Those good at these jobs are unlikely to be driven off given the minor level of 'racism' on display. Secondly why would distant kings care what happens to distant emigrants (as long as their not being massacred) i doubt non argonians get equal treatment in their lands either.

[pekkape]

I dont think this is a question of one or the other from the players point of view. I think we need 2 chars, one that supports the Empire and one that supports the Stormcloaks.

 

My chars don't know about the world politics... ;)

As a player I do have opinions, but what does my chars know?

If I play an Imperial as one char, then what side would she choose? She is convinced that Tamriel should be one.

If I play a Nord, what side would she choose? What does she know about what will happen with the world if she side with the Stormcloaks as she hates the Empire? Her hate is bigger then what is good for her.

My chars has the answers... ;)