Smithing: Reworked experience gain

[psyclog]

In my forum search, I have seen various complaints about the way smithing works in Skyrim: Produce a boatload full of iron daggers or hide bracers to level up your smithing skill to legendary levels, then go about creating high-tier armor and weapons. This is monotonous and doesn't provide for a joyful gaming experience. The same problem applies to enchanting.

 

I see 2 concepts which would, if combined improve the situation:

 

1) The most often-heared proposal: Larger differences in base experience value of smithing products; f.e. creating a Dwarfen Torso Armor should net you far more experience than creating a leather bracer. (the simplest way would be to couple the experience gain to the gold worth of the items)

 

 

2) This is the tricky one: Each consecutive item created of the same type would net you less experience than the one before, following a logistic curve:

 

http://ntumaps.cgm.ntu.edu.tw/aCGH_supplementary/figure_s1.png

 

This means, in effect, that you will gain almost no additional experience for smithing your 101st iron dagger. You need to diversify your smithing, try out all items.

 

This topic 2) would in effect also include the idea of low-tier items yielding less to no experience on higher levels, which I've seen circulating on the boards.

[eltucu]

I'd just equal skill gain to the total value of the materials used.

 

So you'd only "exploit" the iron dagger thing on lower levels where skill poinst are gained more easily, then latter expanding your smithing into more costly (and complex) stuff.

 

That said, you'd need to balance what kind of jewelry you can make since if im not mistaken, you can make Diamond Gold Necklaces no matter the smithing skill as long as you have the ingredients. Take in account that in lower levels is very hard to come across a Flawless Diamond anyway.

 

Im sure you cant do that unless you have some way to dynamically adjust skill gain on-the-fly, though SKSE i assume, since i guess that Skyrim still uses the one to rule them all skill exp gain modifier for each skill.

[flobalob]

A couple of things that I haven't noticed in the various threads on smithing, to make it more TES lore accurate regarding Daedric stuff.

 

1) The Light/Heavy armour sides of the tree should merge after Glass/Ebony into Dragon and THEN go to Daedric (which is supposed to be practically god like)

 

2) Daedric Weapons/Armour should be craftable ONLY at night under the moons, quote taken from in game book Heavy armor repair (Oblivion version, I think it's the same) .

 

Daedric should always be worked on at night... ideally under a new or full moon, and never during an eclipse. A red harvest moon is best.

[psyclog]

I'd just equal skill gain to the total value of the materials used.

 

So you'd only "exploit" the iron dagger thing on lower levels where skill poinst are gained more easily, then latter expanding your smithing into more costly (and complex) stuff.

What you are saying is you would like to implement my topic 1), but leave out topic 2)

 

This might give you the feeling of merely "buying" experience with gold, no skill involved... a rather dull affair. Whether you buy iron ingots or moonstone, it's just eye-candy. Concept 2) might loosen things up a little, as you need to make sure you try out all techniques.

 

flobalob, I'm sure you are making a good point, but it's not really on topic, maybe you should create a new one.

[Scribblesix]

I rather like the the first posters ideas. Smithing is definitely rather poorly implemented and could do with an overhaul. Personally I would take put advanced armor in the middle next to magical items (It's annoying for those who want to make plate to specialize in elf armor and makes next to no sense logically), then as flobalob suggested put daedric crafting above dragonplate.

 

However for a complete overhaul i would transfer the 'honing' bonuses to smithing (ie a sword is made as a "flawless iron great-sword" at the time of crafting) the grindstone and armor tables would then e used to repair weapon degradation that has occurred through use but would be unable to take it beyond the swords initial rating. Making obtaining the smithing perks contingent on completing a radial quest might be good also. (Help an Orc blacksmith to receive orcish smithing training ect)

[flobalob]

Regarding gaining the perks I had a thought, what do you think of this.

 

Player starts with smithing = novice and progresses skill in whaterver way is possible...

Player skill reaches level 24 and then stalls (no further skill progession possible).

At this point the player would have to seek out a smith willing to take him/her on as an apprentice. This would involve some kind of smithing task(s) that would force the skill level to 25 (a mini quest like the one for Alvor).

Player skill now resumes normal levelling until it reaches 49, and the same kind of thing happens and the player must seek somebody to accept him/her as a journeyman.

Repeat these steps for expert/master.

 

Maybe have all (or at least several) smiths accept an apprentice, but progresively fewer for journeyman, expert and only one for master.

[ModelV]

A couple of things that I haven't noticed in the various threads on smithing, to make it more TES lore accurate regarding Daedric stuff.

 

1) The Light/Heavy armour sides of the tree should merge after Glass/Ebony into Dragon and THEN go to Daedric (which is supposed to be practically god like)

 

2) Daedric Weapons/Armour should be craftable ONLY at night under the moons, quote taken from in game book Heavy armor repair (Oblivion version, I think it's the same) .

 

Daedric should always be worked on at night... ideally under a new or full moon, and never during an eclipse. A red harvest moon is best.

 

If you go back a little youll also see that the guy never actually made Daedric armor is going off hearsay and rumors. In reality they could all be false and to really make daedric armor all that it requires is melting the heart in with the ebony or simply forging the ebony item, throwing the heart into the fire, then engulfing the item in the coals and fire morphing the item into a Daedric one at any time. A little off topic I know. I do agree with your first point though as the smithing perk path is confusing.

 

Regarding gaining the perks I had a thought, what do you think of this.

 

Player starts with smithing = novice and progresses skill in whaterver way is possible...

Player skill reaches level 24 and then stalls (no further skill progession possible).

At this point the player would have to seek out a smith willing to take him/her on as an apprentice. This would involve some kind of smithing task(s) that would force the skill level to 25 (a mini quest like the one for Alvor).

Player skill now resumes normal levelling until it reaches 49, and the same kind of thing happens and the player must seek somebody to accept him/her as a journeyman.

Repeat these steps for expert/master.

 

Maybe have all (or at least several) smiths accept an apprentice, but progresively fewer for journeyman, expert and only one for master.

 

Lets not make the game like WoW now okay? And this wouldnt keep you from power leveling it at all...

 

 

Personally I like OP idea number 2.

Edited January 29, 2012 by ModelV

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I wouldn't mind seeing how these ideas pan out if it's doable...

 

Could be interesting anyway.

[ManleySteele]

In my forum search, I have seen various complaints about the way smithing works in Skyrim: Produce a boatload full of iron daggers or hide bracers to level up your smithing skill to legendary levels, then go about creating high-tier armor and weapons. This is monotonous and doesn't provide for a joyful gaming experience. The same problem applies to enchanting.

 

I see 2 concepts which would, if combined improve the situation:

 

1) The most often-heared proposal: Larger differences in base experience value of smithing products; f.e. creating a Dwarfen Torso Armor should net you far more experience than creating a leather bracer. (the simplest way would be to couple the experience gain to the gold worth of the items)

 

 

2) This is the tricky one: Each consecutive item created of the same type would net you less experience than the one before, following a logistic curve:

 

http://ntumaps.cgm.ntu.edu.tw/aCGH_supplementary/figure_s1.png

 

This means, in effect, that you will gain almost no additional experience for smithing your 101st iron dagger. You need to diversify your smithing, try out all items.

 

This topic 2) would in effect also include the idea of low-tier items yielding less to no experience on higher levels, which I've seen circulating on the boards.

 

I believe a dedicated programmer could produce such a mod. The only problem I see with it is that it is no substitute for personal discipline. I am in a game right now, where I am wearing base steel armor. I want to upgrade my enchanted gear I've found lying around, but I won't go the stacking route. I'm stuck on 50 smithing right now, and I really want the 60. I just haven't found anything I want to do to get there. I will probaly, eventually ,make a complete set of dwarven armor and weapons, but I haven't even taken dwarven smithing, yet. Something to look forward to, since I haven't gone out of character, yet, to just go get some dwarven metal and make some ingots. I'll get to it when the game takes me there. Everyone should have the right to experience the game in their own way. I have gone the stacking route before because I could. It didn't take away any of the entertainment value for me. If you do make the mod, let me know. I'll download it and play it just for the different experience. Keep thinking and have fun.

[flobalob]

If you go back a little youll also see that the guy never actually made Daedric armor is going off hearsay and rumors.

(truncated for brevity)

Not in the version I was quoting from which was, as stated, from Oblivion. But even so I have read nothing that contradicts this, and I think Daedric armor is way too easy to make, but that just my opinion.

 

Lets not make the game like WoW now okay? And this wouldnt keep you from power leveling it at all...

 

Wouldn't know about WoW as I have never played it (I don't agree with the paradigm). I sugested it as it seemed like a reasonable way to disrupt power levelling. After all there is nothing that You, I or anybody can come up with that cannot be exploited in some way or another by somebody with the will to do so and a few functional brain cells :)

Edited January 29, 2012 by flobalob