Time for a new PC

[hoofhearted4]

you will be fine with the stock cooling honestly, even stock thermal paste (though if you got some good stuff already, no reason not to use it)....the Hyper 212+ is very cheap though, if you can afford it, by all means go for it, you wont be disappointed, and if you every do decide to OC, its been proven the 212+ (or the newer Hyper 212 EVO, same price, just newer contact plate) can handle it. otherwise, save your $30 and/or put it elsewhere.

[Septfox]

Yarp, sounds like it'd be more trouble than it's worth. Still, if the board I choose happens to have the ability, like you said...picking up a second used GPU later on and running in single mode for games that don't support it sounds like a viable option.

 

Indeed, a Purepower. I made sure to get one of the best PSUs I could find at the time, and it had all around good reviews. It's still ticking away and apparently delivering clean power. Good hardware.

Nobody is going to want to buy this thing, trust me. It's an old 2.53ghz model; lacks hyperthreading, slower than a Pentium M running at 1.7ghz while eating comparatively massive amounts of power...I really don't know what Intel was thinking with these things. The board itself is special Dell crap, the RAM is generic garbage that can't reliably run 400mhz despite being rated for it, the case is bulky and ugly...well, you get the idea. The PSU is literally the only thing in it worth saving (the original PSU being Dell-sourced that burned itself up a couple months after the x1600 was put in). I might take the rest of it outside and set fire to it just for fun, once I'm sure I won't ever need it again.

 

It's not really for my current hard drive that I wanted the IDE connection for; it's just nice to have these things available. Just like floppy drives. It's not often I actually need to use a floppy disk for something, especially in this day and age, but it's still nice to have it for the rare occasion that it's needed. Guess I'll just have to grab a PCI card for'em, le sigh.

 

Considering how much less than expected I'll be paying for a CPU, I'll go ahead and spring for a proper cooler. Better to only have to screw around with applying thermal paste once, eh?

 

 

Still need a bit of info on RAM: I see manufacturers advertising all over that their boards can handle up to 2000, some 2133, generally with an (OC) notation for anything above 1333. Seeing as AMDs have integrated memory controllers, I'm...not really seeing how the motherboard's "supported"/"overclocked" speeds are actually relevant. Maybe I'm just not understanding this right, but at this point isn't the extent that the board is actually involved limited to simply being a physical connection between the processor's controller and memory as well as supplying power, with the northbridge and its limitations completely out of the equation?

[hoofhearted4]

Still need a bit of info on RAM: I see manufacturers advertising all over that their boards can handle up to 2000, some 2133, generally with an (OC) notation for anything above 1333. Seeing as AMDs have integrated memory controllers, I'm...not really seeing how the motherboard's "supported"/"overclocked" speeds are actually relevant. Maybe I'm just not understanding this right, but at this point isn't the extent that the board is actually involved limited to simply being a physical connection between the processor's controller and memory as well as supplying power, with the northbridge and its limitations completely out of the equation?

 

actually didnt read this past the fact you said you wanting info on RAM and how boards can handle different clocks....just get 1333 RAM. you honestly wont notice a damn thing between the different clocks, and youll save yourself $10-$15 just getting the normal clock.....most RAM, even if yo buy it at 1600 or whatever, will revert back to 1333 on mobos, and you still have to manually clock it back up to 1600. and change its timings in the bios

[FMod]

Yarp, sounds like it'd be more trouble than it's worth. Still, if the board I choose happens to have the ability, like you said...picking up a second used GPU later on and running in single mode for games that don't support it sounds like a viable option.

But not something you'd want to pay extra for. Because for that extra, you could sell your old GPU, add up the mobo savings, add what you were going to spend on the second GPU, and buy a newer one as powerful as two old ones combined.

 

Imagine you had a DirectX 10 GPU today - and that's anything introduced in 2009 by AMD, and even some 2010 models from Nvidia. That's introduced, you would be buying them throughout 2010.

Would you install a second one today? Much good will DX10 do you - Crysis is about the only game to use it, could as well be DX 9.0c like yours. Newer games rely on DX11 anyway.

 

So unless you are definitely going to install a second GPU in 2012, maybe 2013, don't even bother.

 

 

Indeed, a Purepower. I made sure to get one of the best PSUs I could find at the time, and it had all around good reviews. It's still ticking away and apparently delivering clean power. Good hardware.

Their good series was Toughpower... but some Purepower are OK. Others are junk. Two different makers. I just don't remember which, it's been so long ago. You may google around for old reviews to see if it's actually worth keeping.

 

 

Considering how much less than expected I'll be paying for a CPU, I'll go ahead and spring for a proper cooler. Better to only have to screw around with applying thermal paste once, eh?

Well, you're supposed to replace it once every 2-3 years, but I don't know anyone who bothers. By that time you rarely care anymore. And newer compounds can last for 5-7 years.

 

A good heatsink is well worth it anyway. Just one look at these tiny stock heatsinks (google it up) tells the story. A large heatpipe unit like 212 or CNPS10X, on the other hand, allows you to overclock way up, while still being quieter than stock at stock speed.

 

 

Still need a bit of info on RAM: I see manufacturers advertising all over that their boards can handle up to 2000, some 2133, generally with an (OC) notation for anything above 1333.

It's in the BIOS. The CPU can't set its RAM speed higher than BIOS will allow it to. Then there is fine voltage control, as power is still supplied by the mobo.

If you get Samsung DDR3-1333 (with Samsung chips!), it can be overclocked all the way to 2133 MHz on good enough mobos. But it doesn't really make any difference. It would if you had a Llano APU, which uses it as VRAM, but with a regular Athlon, the performance difference between 1333 and 2133 is like 1%.

[us11csalyer]

You should keep an eye on microcenter.com I got my I5-2500k from there for 179.99 + 60 dollars off motherboard. There is no reason you should be spending 40 dollars on 8gigs of DDR3.

[Septfox]

Yarp, sounds like it'd be more trouble than it's worth. Still, if the board I choose happens to have the ability, like you said...picking up a second used GPU later on and running in single mode for games that don't support it sounds like a viable option.

But not something you'd want to pay extra for. Because for that extra, you could sell your old GPU, add up the mobo savings, add what you were going to spend on the second GPU, and buy a newer one as powerful as two old ones combined.

 

Imagine you had a DirectX 10 GPU today - and that's anything introduced in 2009 by AMD, and even some 2010 models from Nvidia. That's introduced, you would be buying them throughout 2010.

Would you install a second one today? Much good will DX10 do you - Crysis is about the only game to use it, could as well be DX 9.0c like yours. Newer games rely on DX11 anyway.

 

So unless you are definitely going to install a second GPU in 2012, maybe 2013, don't even bother.

Right then, you make a good argument against it. Most of the boards I'm looking at happen to have support and well-spaced slots, but I won't pay a premium for it.

 

Considering how much less than expected I'll be paying for a CPU, I'll go ahead and spring for a proper cooler. Better to only have to screw around with applying thermal paste once, eh?

Well, you're supposed to replace it once every 2-3 years, but I don't know anyone who bothers. By that time you rarely care anymore. And newer compounds can last for 5-7 years.

 

A good heatsink is well worth it anyway. Just one look at these tiny stock heatsinks (google it up) tells the story. A large heatpipe unit like 212 or CNPS10X, on the other hand, allows you to overclock way up, while still being quieter than stock at stock speed.

Oh trust me, I know the importance of having a good heatsink. My old Athlon got pretty toasty at times with the terrible little aluminum Foxconn that the bundle sale provided, even at stock speeds. I don't recall offhand what I ended up getting, some aluminum/copper hybrid that was popular back then, but it made a huge difference.

Was just under the impression that modern OEM heatsinks were actually decent. Now I know better.

 

Still need a bit of info on RAM: I see manufacturers advertising all over that their boards can handle up to 2000, some 2133, generally with an (OC) notation for anything above 1333.

It's in the BIOS. The CPU can't set its RAM speed higher than BIOS will allow it to. Then there is fine voltage control, as power is still supplied by the mobo.

If you get Samsung DDR3-1333 (with Samsung chips!), it can be overclocked all the way to 2133 MHz on good enough mobos. But it doesn't really make any difference. It would if you had a Llano APU, which uses it as VRAM, but with a regular Athlon, the performance difference between 1333 and 2133 is like 1%.

That's a bit odd. It seems to me that the difference between say, DDR 266 and 400 was a fair bit pronounced. I take it that the emphasis now is on better timings and response times, with bandwidth that around 1333 provides currently being adequate for most tasks (assuming the system uses discrete rather than integrated video)? Or is it simply that the memory itself can't keep up with the interface at this point?

 

 

The prices I've tossed up so far are what I find for decent brands, via Pricewatch. It used to be a pretty good site, but I'm finding now that it doesn't do quite as good a job. Worry not, I'll be looking for the best possible prices that I can get for the stuff I pick.

Part list soon to come.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Septfox

[us11csalyer]

Ram speed doesn't matter to much with unlocked CPUs; however, OCing on non-unlocked CPUs are dictated by your ram's speed. eg.. OCing a Q6600. So you take your FSB max and divide 2 for max ram speed. Anything after the listed max FSB on the mobo you are able to pump out is a plus. For 775t generally you would want to stick close to 1:1 ratio for maxing out a board's OCing ability. At lease on ones you can still buy on newegg anyways.

[FMod]

That's a bit odd. It seems to me that the difference between say, DDR 266 and 400 was a fair bit pronounced. I take it that the emphasis now is on better timings and response times, with bandwidth that around 1333 provides currently being adequate for most tasks (assuming the system uses discrete rather than integrated video)? Or is it simply that the memory itself can't keep up with the interface at this point?

Times change. RAM throughput used to be a bottleneck, now it's not anymore.

 

Modern CPU-integrated memory controllers are miles more efficient than older ones. For instance dual-channel LGA1155 has higher memory throughput than triple-channel LGA1366, using the same kind of RAM. Improved caching also helps.

Whatever it is, fast RAM just doesn't do anything today in most tasks.

 

edit: Also, it's not very important in overclocking either, because you can set the ratio lower. Still can be good to get a Samsung (on original Samsung chips), followed by anything on Crucial/Micron chips, and finally Hynix chips are also OK. Kingstons on the other hand often don't o/c at all, period, whatever the chips, so avoid them.

Edited February 5, 2012 by FMod

[Septfox]

Hrm, I see.

 

Anyway, I think I have a working list of sorts, with lowest prices found.

• 
   
  
• Motherboard: ASRock A75 EXTREME6 (info) - $89
  
• CPU: Athlon II x4 631 - $76
  
• CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $35ish
  Chosen because it was suggested and I can't be bothered to look into others :v
  
• Video: Radeon HD7750 - unreleased, $100-$150 planned
  Also chosen because it was suggested. I just realized that I haven't actually shopped for a video card since buying my Gainward ti4800SE. Hmm.
  
• RAM: Crucial CT2KIT51264BD1339 (4gb x 2) - $35
  1333 base, from what I've read of new Crucial stuff will only hit 1866 (if that). Still, the price is decent, and bandwidth isn't everything, so yea. I've also read that modern Crucial makes memory that tends to remain stable and last longer than other manufacturers, so that's a plus. *shrugs*
  
• Alternate RAM: Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US - $45ish
  So chosen because users on both Amazon and Newegg have hit rather high clocks with it and kept stable. While I probably won't overclock anything at first, it'd be nice to have the option. The pricetag is a little steep, but...well, it's Samsung, and it's 1600 base. It also has fairly high default timings, but that can be fixed.
  
• Boot drive: Crucial M4 - ~$100
  Slowish write speed (95mb/s), but pretty high read speed (500mb/s), which seems to me is more important to a system drive. Also highest-rated on Newegg. I probably won't get this immediately.
  
• Main drive: I don't know yet. - $75-$125
  It seems that new Hitachi drives have pretty high DOA rates and low 6+ month survivability. Someone suggest one, I'm willing to listen even if it's a Seagate or WD :\
  
• Misc cable adapters - $10
  

Total: $345 - $405 with an additional $225 (roundabouts anyway) in the future for storage. Potentially less if I poke around on eBay a bit...not too shabby all together, I don't think.

 

Final comments/suggestions? I really appreciate the help so far, as utterly behind on the game as I am I would probably have ended up with a barely-functioning pile of junk.

Edit: and lo, there was kudos~

Edited February 5, 2012 by Septfox

[FMod]

[*]CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $35ish

You might be able to get Zalman CNPS10X for that though, check it. CNPS10X is better.

 

[*]Video: Radeon HD7750 - unreleased, $100-$150 planned

It's not $100-$150, it's more like a sure $149, since there is no competition from Nvidia to speak of. But should be worth it.

 

[*]Alternate RAM: Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US - $45ish

Strictly speaking I'd say it isn't worth an extra $10 over the other option, but then $10 is very little money in absolute terms. And it's new 1.35V memory, which is considered the next half-generation (DDR4 is NOT coming soon). So why not.

 

[*]Main drive: I don't know yet. - $75-$125

Try to drag on for as long as you can. HDD prices will come down by the end of the year. Some predict they will come down hard.

 

By hard, I mean - today your choice is either $75 for an old 320GB drive that will run out of space soon, or full $130+ for a 2TB unit. It is not good value. Just half a year ago, before the flood, the former would cost you $35, and a 2TB unit $65. In a year, the prices will likely come down to mid-2011 level, and these will be new models, better and larger. So you'll be paying $40 for a decent 1TB drive, or $75 for one packing 3TB or even 4TB.