The Current State of Nvidia Laptops, Windows 10, and SSE

[Mewtwo16]

Hi everybody, I'm new to the forums, but definitely not new to the site or modding in general.

 

I'm writing today to talk about a specific issue that's affecting me and just about everybody else who owns a Laptop with a Dedicated Nvidia GPU that has Optimus Technology.

I'm also going to talk about a few other issues, and ask some questions that have been confusing me.

 

So about a month ago I bought a new ASUS GL553VW Laptop Primarily for Music Production but I also wanted it to have some gaming capabilities.

 

The requirements for a good Music Production Laptop aren't much different than that of a Gaming PC.

You need a Decent CPU(Preferably Quad-Core Multi Threading Doesn't Help Much)

You need a Decent amount of Quality RAM(8 GB Minumum For VST's and MIDI)

A Decent sized SSD(Can get away with large HDD)

Good USB Functionality

Good Build Quality

GPU isn't as important when it comes to Music Production but can help when running many programs at once with multiple VST Plugins

 

Regardless I'm rambling, So I bought this Asus Because the Specs are as follows:

i5-6300HQ(Skylake)w/ Intel HD Graphics 530

8 GB DDR4 RAM

GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

500 GB M.2 SSD

The computer is more than powerful enough for Music Production and I'm happy to say I'm running Ableton Live Standard Fine.

 

So I thought I'd install some games, It's been a while since I played on PC, I sold my old budget rig a few years back, I thought I was treating myself with a Nice Laptop that would destroy all games Pre-2015 and be able to play some newer games at console level.

I noticed I had Skyrim Special Edition in my Steam Library so I downloaded that and went in game to play at high settings. The first thing I noticed is that I was getting a decent framerate. Something like 40-45 FPS but it seemed off. Looked pretty though.

 

So after checking out the S.E.P.T.I.M. Guide

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/2846/?

 

I noticed that there were some ini settings that were causing Nvidia Gpus(both Desktop and Mobile) to have some performance problems

 

The SEPTIM guide suggest you disable vysnc in your skyrimprefs.ini settings

Find iVSyncPresentInterval=1 and change the 1 to 0 and save

 

Now unlock your framerate in your skyrim.ini under [Display]

Write or find iPresentInterval=1 and change it to iPresentInterval=0 and save

Now the framerate is unlocked and the in game Vsync is also off, but if we don't limit skyrim's framerate to 60 externally you will have engine issues and other problems.

 

So I downloaded Nvidia Inspector, Made a Profile for SSE and I limited my frame rate to 60(v2) and then I turned Vsync from Application-Controlled to Force On. I launched SSE from Nexus Mod Manager and my frames were much higher it was really cool, I was even getting 60fps indoors occasionally.

 

At this time I also downloaded Bethini, which is fantastic and helps optimize your ini files so the game runs better and looks better then Bethesda's vanilla presets.

 

So Everything seemed great. I had a bunch of mods, SMIM Lite, plus SFO(only trees) and, Realistic Water Two were my only graphical mods. I had other mods installed but they never affected framerate from the testing I did. I had my ini settings optimized by Bethini and I still had my framerate locked and vsync on externally from Nvidia Inspector.

I was at first very impressed by the visual fidelity. I'm coming first from 360, than Xbox One, I've also played Oldrim on my budget rig a few years ago. I love this game. You could say i've seen in alot of coats of paint and at a lot different performance levels.

 

Here is the big issue, SCREEN TEARING, not just a little bit of Screen Tearing, a ridiculous amount of horizontal screen tearing regardless of framerate, Screen Tearing actually seemed to get worse at 60 FPS locked.

 

I had really never experienced this level of Screen Tearing in my lifetime as a gamer. So I thought it had to be something on my end.

 

Now let me make a note, Coming from console, I have no issue playing at 30 fps locked(especially if it means increasing visual fidelity and adding more mods) I would actually prefer this over every other option. Now we start getting into the interesting stuff if your still with me. The stuff I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. The reason I came to write this longwinded post, the reason I'm joining the community as an active member, to remedy these issues so we can all enjoy the little free time we have and the money we have already sunk into these experiences.

 

Looking around a bit I read someone suggesting to use Rivatuner Statistics Server to Lock Framerate Instead of using Inspector, From that user's experience it has always been more stable. I found a few other people reiterating his point. So I tried downloading that and disabling the framelock on nvidia inspector.

The result was actually a smoother feeling game, but with an equal amount of screen tearing.

Changing the lock from 59 to 61 and even 62 didn't help at all with the screen tearing. Especially that constant screen tear on the very bottom of my monitor(tested external HDMI TV tears are still there and so is the bottom one.)

 

So I thought let's just try to limit the game to a consistent 30 fps with rivatuner or nvidia inspector.

Holy s#*!, I've never seen screen tearing like that. With vysnc on, off, adaptive, standard

at 30 fps,32,35,60,59,61,62 all of these locks cause massive tearing regardless of graphics settings or mods?

 

So I turn everything off and test my current framerate, i set my ini to 900p, no vysnc, no framelock, no smim or sfo, no rivatuner. I set my resolution to 900p(this way I know I can maintain a really solid framerate above 60fps)

Walking around and testing spots like riverwood and the guardian stones im getting 65-68fps with drops to 60fps. But I still have a lot of screen tearing.

So I go out and change one setting I lock Rivatuner to 59fps and yet again the tearing is horrible. I try 60 again. the tearing is worse maybe?

 

I start doing a massive amount of research and testing,

I come across this thread on the geforce forums.

 

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/903422/geforce-mobile-gpus/diagonal-screen-tearing-issues-on-gtx-860m-870m-960m-965m-970m-980m-/20/

 

This thread goes into heavy detail from many users and is about 32 pages in length dating back a few years into many users of Nvidia Laptops feeling cheated by the performance of there laptops especially when it comes to Vsync, Screen Tearing, Windowed and Windowed Borderless modes in games, and older versions of DirectX.

One user even goes on to call his 960m a paperweight on his desk.

 

Nvidia Support Blames Windows 10 and Microsoft not properly supporting Optimus Technology, and many users say reverting to Windows 7 and 8.1 makes there gaming laptop awesome again and there are few issues.

Windows has even acknowledged the issue(but sort of points the finger at Nvidia)

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3158621/hybrid-graphics-and-vsync-results-in-graphic-tearing-in-some-games-and-apps-on-windows-10

 

What's Interesting is many users are reporting this even on there 10 series laptops which just came out. People are having so many different problems all around the board and it's awful.

 

Some in the thread say that the coming Creators Update for Windows 10 could fix the Optimus Issue, as it is also their Gaming Update(includes Game Mode and Beam) it may fix the issue. But if it doesn't what will? I feel sort of cheated by spending a little extra just to game when maybe I could have invested that 200 dollars into the start of another budget desktop. The reason I had to buy an overexpensive laptop in the first

place was because I am a touring electronic musician and I take my productions on the road which is standard practice. I'm also not fond of macs at all.

 

One last thing, If i go to my skyrimprefs.ini and manually change iVsyncPresentInterval=2 and change vysnc to force on adaptive or standard in Nvidia Inspector, I get no screen tearing in SSE while maintaining 30 fps solid. It looks and feels just like console. The last time I tried this I had my settings at 1080p on high, had a bunch of mods and occasionally would drop below 30fps in certain areas so it wouldn't really help. But I realized those trouble spots were my mods and my settings I think so as long as i'm getting above 30 it shouldn't drop right? good. But not perfect because it's a weird fix. A very weird fix to play a game at a decent visual quality without ripping my trees into a million pieces or making my rocks look like I just drank some skooma everytime I turn my head.

I'm going to do extensive testing of SSE with 900p and iVysncPresentInterval=2 iPresentInterval=0 and if It runs rock solid in all problem areas then I will boost my graphics and add mods until I reach the golden point and just keep my settings where they are at. Sounds like a console equivalent to me with higher visual fidelity. I will report my findings here.

I will be testing Bioshock Infinite as well(horrible tearing with vsync on, none with vysnc off) maintaing 60fps with rivatuner though it's not picking up my controller anymore.

 

Also going to test morrowind later and enderal.

 

So I want to know from other people with Nvidia and Optimus Based Laptops how are you guys doing in games? Especially Games like Enderal, oldrim, and SSE?

What do you guys think about the Creators Update for windows 10?

What do you think is going on with my rig and SSE with the strange ini settings? why would this fake form of halfway adaptive sync(can't enable from inspector) work so well compared to everything else?

Is there any hope for laptop users at all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AzureWind13]

I have nothing useful to say (due to awe and time limitations), except that this post deserves recognition. *bump*

I'll stay tuned to this topic :happy:

[TheMastersSon]

"many users say reverting to Windows 7 and 8.1 makes there gaming laptop awesome again and there are few issues."

 

This. You've just answered most of your own questions. :smile:

Edited April 15, 2017 by TheMastersSon

[Mewtwo16]

TheMastersSon This is maybe an option for some but not for everyone.

[TheMastersSon]

Usually it's just a matter of tracking down Win 7 drivers for your hardware, in fact I've yet to run into any computer (desktop or laptop) that couldn't be "downgraded" from Windows 10. Gamers are trying to hammer increasingly square pegs into increasingly round holes with more recent Windows versions, and this stupidity will only get worse as long as the market allows it.