Changing Handedness and making containers

[MoutainSplitter]

Well, i've got 2 problems. For one, when I try and make/place containers, they're un-interactable in-game. Second, I wanted to mess with the handedness of weapons, like making a warhammer 1handed or a mace 2 handed, but there is issues. When initially equiped in the inventory, it looks fine. When out of it, the weapon stays in it's original sheathed position, but the player holds nothing. Anyone know what to do? All I did was make said weapon to 2handed blunt or one handed blunt, etc.

[DrakeTheDragon]

Don't know enough about how you "made" your containers to know what you might possibly have missed, given you made a correct new container entry in the CS it might very well be missing collision boundaries inside the NIF,

 

but for your weapons changed 1H => 2H and vice versa in the CS, did you also think of changing the PRN property inside the NIF SideWeapon => BackWeapon and vice versa, or how they're called? The CS controls the way the weapon is wielded, and the NIF controls how/where it is sheathed, but if both do not match, it "can" be bad things will happen.

 

If you look at a 1H weapon and a 2H weapon in a NIF, you'll easily see the correct entries for the PRN.

[MoutainSplitter]

Can I fix this issue within the CS? I've sorta done this in FNV and FO3, but I didnt have to do anything with nifs, I just set the weapon to be 1handed or 2handed, etc. How do I change this PRN property?

[DrakeTheDragon]

Can't take a look into the details right now, but if you look at a 1H weapon's NIF and a 2H weapon's NIF for comparison, you should find the block with the PRN setting right away.

 

I'm afraid you'll need NIFSkope for that, but NIFSkope's inevitable for working with NIFs anyways, and the basic steps really aren't hard to learn.

 

The actual work of changing handedness inside a NIF will only take some seconds, for example, a minute at most.

[MoutainSplitter]

Thanks! I was able to find the right string to change the handedness, tested it on the club, which looks great 2handed.

 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/172668583927687654/C8F157C4B27E57C7D47B5E7A0EE88B8C5A622662/

 

Now I just can't figure out how to get a container to work. Like i've done on Fallout NV/3, I just edit an existing container, change the id so its a different object, and place it in the world. But here, it's like a un-interact-able brick in the game world.

Edited April 11, 2017 by MoutainSplitter

[DrakeTheDragon]

Hmm, so you simply duplicated an existing container record, renamed it, and placed an instance of it into the world? If you didn't even touch what NIF it uses, then I see no reason why it shouldn't still work as the original did before.

 

I, too, always go into the containers that already exist inside the game, duplicate one, give it a new EditorId and name, edit its contents, then place an instance of it into the world where I want my items to be. But maybe somewhere along the line a critical step was mixed up?

 

I'll see to get some specifics on what I usually do and get back to you, as soon as I get back to modding again next time.

In the meantime, if someone else on here has a step-by-step for comparison, be our guest to chime in. I'm not the only one here who knows how this is done.

[Surilindur]

Now this is not exactly a step-by-step guide, but did you make sure to copy a container base object, and not a static object? Accidentally copying a static container (like a static barrel) would produce an un-interactable brick indeed - but then again, it would not explain how you managed to add a club inside it... :huh: Another thing to check could be to make sure the container reference in the world is not inside the collision box of another reference. For example some walls might have alcoves in them, but the alcove might actually be physically inside the object (collision or something, I have no idea how meshes work, Drake knows a lot better), even though it looks like it were a sort of... well... alcove. Placing an item inside the collision box (whatever it is named) would make the container look like as if it were accessible, with the container actually being inside the other mesh (and therefore unable for interction).

 

Oh well, now that I started typing, a step-by-step might look a bit like this (a rough sketch):

• in the CS[E], in the Object Window tree, navigate to WorldObjects -> Container
• double-click to open an existing container object, change the editor ID, then click OK
• in the popup window, select to create a new form ("Create a new Form?" -> "Yes")
• now double-click the new form with the new editor ID to open it
• in the Object Window, navigate to the club, and drag it to the item list of the container (in the popup window that is still open)
• click OK to save changes
• drag-and-drop the new container into the game world
• save the plugin

There should not be anything too complicated involved. Or maybe it is just something extremely tiny that is being overlooked. Does the container have a name, and does it display the name when you place the crosshair over it? If it has a name, and if it displays the name when the crosshair is over it, then the container should be fine (unless, of course, it is an activator, but that is obviously not the case). If the name is there when you look at the container, and if it fails to open when interacted with, then it could maybe also be a script that is attached to the container and is blocking any activation. If you duplicated an existing container, it might have had a script attached to it that, for one reason or another, blocks all activation of the container. For reference/example, adding a script with an empty OnActivate block on an NPC prevents the activation of that NPC (for example for dialogue purposes), so maybe the same works for containers, as well? (Never tried it myself, actually, now that I think of it...)

 

Hopefully that helps a bit. If it does not help, at least it might help exclude some potential sources of issues. Enjoy the spring, and I hope your problem will one day be solved. It is only a container, after all. Whatever issues there may be, it is bound to be something very small. :happy:

 

Edit: Fixed some typos...

Edited April 11, 2017 by Contrathetix

[MoutainSplitter]

Yup. I just put the containers in bad spots, I guess in the alcove of some walls wasn't a good placement. Thanks for the help!

Edited April 11, 2017 by MoutainSplitter

[DrakeTheDragon]

Now that was a simple one. Yeah, there's a clear distinction between the visible mesh of the model itself and the invisible, mostly also simplified, mesh of the collision boundary.

Sadly the game's designers more often than not created situations where there's like a huge rectangular block over an otherwise very detailed wall with alcoves, holes and concavity, all blocked by the invisible wall put around.

 

You can see the collision boundaries inside the CS as well though, so it's not too difficult to see if something's obstructed by it or accessible already outside the game still.

 

Thanks, Contra, for chiming in from me as well! That's what I love about this place. The regulars always tag-team up and fill each other's gaps when helping. And at the end all participants have learned some more. :thumbsup:

[Surilindur]

Great to hear the problem was solved. Oblivion never fails to surprise - one way or another - and always when least expecting it. :P

 

Indeed everyone has a chance to learn something! For example I now finally also know how to change the way a wepon is held (before I forget it again). Not to mention picking up the tiny pieces of scripting-related things I now know from these very forums, among other things. The forum really is a great place to learn, and it is all thanks to the regulars here (a big wave to Striker, too!).

 

Also, if it really is something that small that is required to change the handedness of a weapon, then maybe something like NifSE could even be used to automate the Nif file manipulations in-game? Combined with some OBSE commands. Hmm. Or maybe not. Depends on how a Nif file works and what sort of commands NifSE offers... :unsure: