Kyuukei Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Feanoro: as far as I know, you are correct; the Snow Elves inhabited Skyrim before any Nords did. If I remember correctly, Ysgramor and his men came down from a continent to the north of Tamriel and were in fact beaten back by the Falmer once, before establishing a foothold. That's when the Falmer were driven underground and stuff, but that's for another topic. Kinda makes me wonder what exactly the Stormcloaks mean when they call Skyrim 'the birthplace of Man'... Edited February 12, 2012 by Kyuukei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky999 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I'm torn really, on one hand I can understand the Forsworn's desire to retake their homeland, but on the other hand their tactics of killing random civilians to do so is really off-putting. I also really turned against them after I started to look closer at their rituals and practices... http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123104255/elderscrolls/images/7/7f/Forsworn.png I mean look at this guy! He's had his heart cut out and replaced with a magic one, that's not right! There's that and let's not forget the fact that the associate with, and seem to worship, Hagravens! Hagravens!!! The Forsworn may get some sympathy for losing their lands, but their practices and believes are messed up beyond belief... Kinda makes me wonder what exactly the Stormcloaks mean when they call Skyrim 'the birthplace of Man'... I'm guessing they mean it in the sense that after the Nedes left Atmora for Skyrim, they branched off into the races of the Nords, Imperials and Bretons. Edited February 12, 2012 by Sky999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmanners Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If they want to argue who was there first, then the dragons are the most deserving, and the Forsworn can get off of *their* land. :tongue: If you wanted to argue merit, then forget the Forsworn. They abandoned that a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubstepKid Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think to join the Forsworn would be cool since there so many of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daventry Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I just saved the Foresworn King, but when i travel the Reach, im still being attacked by Foresworn, i thought we are Brothers now or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I just saved the Foresworn King, but when i travel the Reach, im still being attacked by Foresworn, i thought we are Brothers now or something. Madanach clearly tells you that this will be the case. Untill he can get them all together again, they'll still attack anyone who isn't Foresworn on sight. As for their religious practices... Who are you to judge? If i don't like the Church of Dibella, does that give me a right to berate their religious practices? What about Talos worshipers? Not just here, but on the Bethesda forums, i see a lot of people who espouse the validity of Talos worship, while demonising the Foresowrn religion. Its utter hipocracy. The fact of the matter is, the Foresworn are oppressed slaves in their own lands. They've been under the boot of the Nords for thousands of years, and the one time they get close to regaining their freedom, the soon-to-be Stormcloaks march in and slaughter women and children. They tried to do things the right way, and by all indications their uprising was pretty damn bloodless, followed by diplomacy and actually following due process, which puts them one step ahead of Ulfric and his cronies (who themselves has valid justifications). As for the Hag Ravens... whats so bad about them? The fact they attack you on sight? So do Spriggans, and no one claims their evil. Is it because their ugly? So are plenty of otherwise 'friendly' Daedra, such as Winged Twilights. The Reachmen (As they were known before they became the Foresworn) have been a thorn in the side of invaders for thousands of years, because everyone likes to tread them underfoot. They've never showed the slightest inclination to expand beyond the Reach, and the only reason anyone is interested in their land is because of mines. You beat a dog enough and it's going to bite back. Well, the Foresworn ahve been beaten since before the founding of the Allessan Empire, theres a reason they are as violent as they are now. They deserve more pitty than the Falmer, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmanners Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I just saved the Foresworn King, but when i travel the Reach, im still being attacked by Foresworn, i thought we are Brothers now or something. If you want to see that guy again, you have to go to Druadach Redoubt. All the others are still hostile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Kinda makes me wonder what exactly the Stormcloaks mean when they call Skyrim 'the birthplace of Man'... Going off on a tangent here, but Tamriel is the birthplace of all life on Mundus. It started there, moved outwards (or was moved) and in many cases returned. During the war between the fallen Et'ada (along with the Aedra) and Lorkhan, the trickster created Men to stand with him. The Nords beleive he did this in Skyrim, and i have some as yet difficult to substantiate ideas about the Skyforge... Still, it's pretty likely that Men were created in Skyrim, then moved to Atmora and Yokuda by the Aedra following Lorkhan's defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I think I'll side with the Forsworn actually. They get enough hate.When people start berating them for 'not being right' and 'being cowards' and start criticizing them for religious beliefs and voluntary practices rather than for being murderers, we have a problem. Edited February 14, 2012 by Rennn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeban Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Greetings, Nexus Denizens. First post for me (I'm a Dunmer, so 50% resistance to flame keke). Apologies for the intense wall of text :) My thoughts on the Forsworn are rather ambivalent. Being inclined to take the side of the underdog in most scenarios, I was supportive, albeit suspiciously so, of them early on. The experience of Markarth and of the sleazy Silverbloods had left a bad taste in my mouth regarding the entire Reach situation/Nord occupation. I didn't particularly enjoy being attacked on sight by the Forsworn, nor could I particularly condone their seemingly endless slaughter of groups of randomly-spawned "Orc Hunters" (not bandits), Peddlers, Stendarr Vigilants, and other random, non-combatant NPCs, but I could get down with their whole "prisoners in our own land" rallying cry, as it is a legitimate grievance. Then, however, I did the Cidhna Mine quests and I began to re-evaluate the Forsworn, raising several red flags: 1. Madanach is irredeemably vengeful; worse than a sociopath, he is downright genocidal in his position against the Nords. He claims his desire to "paint the Reach red with Nord blood" upon escaping and--he does. He is monomaniacal, a Serbian war criminal Ahab out to slay the great white Nord whale, all else and all others be damned. Now, the man has been through quite a bit, I will surely grant him that, but that doesn't excuse him or mean that his tactics are at all justified. He is nothing but an impediment to any peaceful resolution to the situation in the Reach. 2. The Forsworn themselves. Who are the Forsworn? Yes, they are Reachmen mostly, but Reachmen =/= Forsworn (smelter workers, ainethach + others at karthwasten, bothella, eltrys, etc.) and Forsworn =/= Reachmen (escaped Cidhna Orc, assorted rabble of all races are alluded to). The Forsworn are revanchists and malcontents. Their indigenous nature gives their plight weight, but there are many ethnic Reachmen living normal, nonviolent lives in Markarth and elsewhere. The Forsworn are, after the Markarth Incident, more akin to wild animals than to a political faction. Even with all the personal animus between Tullius and Ulfric, or between the Stormcloaks and Imperials more broadly, both sides don't crave violence for the sake of violence. Ulfric even gives that lengthy monologue to Galmar about it, saying that it would be a better day when men of war were no longer necessary, and expressing concern over the fates of families in Whiterun. Sure, soldiers in the camps say "I can't wait to kill another Imperial/Stormcloak," but that is far from "I can't wait to paint Haafingar with the blood of all non-Stormcloaks!" Both Civil War factions have political objectives, not dreams of ethnic cleansing. The Forsworn (before the Markarth Incident) had political objectives once, but they have fallen out of fashion in favor of a base lust for the blood of all non-Forsworn. This makes them essentially speaking, surface-dwelling Falmer. 3. Forsworn religion. What they and their Hagravenz do is up to them and I won't judge... except to say that in exploring Forsworn locations, there certainly seems to be an awful lot of mutilated bodies, gnawed-on skulls, spines, blood splatter, etc. lying about. I am all for religious tolerance and moral relativism, but I am not so sure that my tolerance extends to the realm of human sacrifice, zombification (briarhearts), and cannibalism. Plenty of TES groups have questionable religious and/or cultural practices, but most of these do not involve human/elven/beastrace sacrifices or meddling in undeath. Perhaps if said sacrifices were willing (glorious in the eyes of the Forsworn?) I might condone it, but likely they are not and/or are just random people that they have kidnapped off of the roads. In which case, see above. 4. Does the Reach really belong to the Forsworn? Technically Elves > Reachmen in the battle of Reach ancestry, but I don't see any elves clamoring to reclaim the Reach (or at least for that reason keke). Yes, the Reachmen predated the Nords, but the Nords are there now, in large numbers, and this fact cannot--no matter how many innocent traders are murdered on the roads--be changed. My sympathy for the Forsworn really took a hit in a poignant scene near the Lover Stone. In some idyllic highland lake, the body of a young Redguard woman was floating--stuck like a pincushion with Forsworn arrows. Near her satchel lay a note speaking of her love for this particular pond, even though her father warned her about the Forsworn. Now, even if she was somehow in Forsworn territory... WTF!? She was clearly not a Nord and she was obviously just having fun swimming around in her favorite lake. No amount of Cidhna mine tales can make me forgive the Forsworn for doing that. That action was subhuman, the act of a Falmer (which is what I had expected). And I am sure that that scene has been repeated many, many times before. In sum, I am beginning to find the Forsworn (as opposed to Reachmen) somewhat distasteful, despite their cause. I would be all for them if they limited their attacks to military/political targets (assassinate Silverbloods, Legates, Stormcloaks, etc.), but obviously, they do not. Heck, if they holed up in their fortresses and just lived quietly like the Orcs do, I doubt they would have many problems from the authorities. I would hope that a wise Reachwoman like Bothella could broker a treaty to end the bloodshed. Nords inhabit very few areas of the Reach when compared with the Forsworn; perhaps such a settlement might leave those to the Nords and the rest to the Forsworn. But nothing will be accomplished by wanton slaughter, it will only invite reprisal when the Civil War is over. If that happens, the Forsworn, with Skyrim-wide demographics solidly against them, will likely go the way of their present day tactical mentors, the Falmer. TL;DR: Leave the Nords Markarth, Karthwastern and the Kolskeggr Mine. Give the rest to the Forsworn. OR, crush the Forsworn and let the Orcs enlarge their strongholds! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts