Talwyn224 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I've always thought that the the Mojave BoS are a real conundrum, a bit of a double standard and in a way a bunch of hypocrites. First off when you meet them in the game, you learn that they are always very wary of outsiders, in fact if you don't approach with Veronica as a companion, they slap on a bomb collar on you and make you deal with an NCR ranger who's sniffing around Hidden Valley. After you gain entry either with Veronica or or by dealing with the Ranger, you learn that they've been in lock down for the past 5 years, only sending out very limited patrols and scouts into the Mojave and generally cowering from the outside world. You also learn that they don't want nor accept outside help, they are not interested in recruiting from outside their ranks and are solely fixated on acquiring, studying and preserving technology for its own sake. In fact there are rumblings within the BoS chapter itself, elements wishing the Couriers aid in overthrowing the current elder. Yet once you've done a few quests for them, their dogmatic attitude suddenly has this remarkable sea change and low and behold, you're their best pal and if you complete all their quest lines they induct you as a member of the BoS. However if you go through Veronica's personal quest, "I could make you care" she argues in vain for Elder MacNamrra to change his stance on the BoS and their blind and dogmatic adherence to the Codex. He states they don't take in outsiders and don't need to change but yet in a total about face, he happily trains the Courier in the usage of power armour and grants full membership to the chapter after the courier completes Eyesight for the Blind. Huh? :dry: Does anyone else here see this as just as a massive drop in continuity and a total about face in regards to the so called blind adherence to the BoS Codex? Either you don't accept outsiders or you do. You can't have it both ways. Personally I think the writers of FONV make a complete balls up of this storyline of the game. The staggering hypocrisy that is shown towards Veronica, who has the BoS best interests at heart and is rejected even though she and the courier can bring overwhelming evidence to show the Elder that he needs to rethink his position, and then compare that to the way the Elder deals with the courier [who is an outsider] and after only knowing the courier for a brief while, suddenly says you're now one of us mate, is beyond belief. You learn through the various logs and in the quest line to replace MacNamarra that the BoS have had past history where an elder is replaced as that's is what Hardin needs in order to get rid of MacNamarra. If the FONV writers had gone that little bit further, then perhaps they should have included the small but massively important fact that the BoS have indeed accepted outside help and have inducted outsiders into their order, namely the original Vault Dweller from Fallout 1! The courier should have been able to use a science skill check plus a high speech check and in addition have to search for more records in order to prove his case for admission as well as show MacNamarra that the BoS Codex isn't as inflexible as he makes it out to be. I know its not really possible to alter the game now in order to fix this but I would like to know what other people think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderused Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The reason you get to join the BOS is because you performed an extraordinary task for them and earned the privilege of joining them. So... yes outsiders can join, but... it takes quite a bit of commitment. Not something the average mojave dweller can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I agree with you to a certain extent, but you should also realize that you are not a normal outsider. They saw you as an extremely valuable asset, and they were willing to bend the rules slightly just for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExElysium Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Meh. I joined them, helped them, gained their trust, got some shiny clunky armor out of it and then blew them up. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzlsacatanango Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 People twist their beliefs and rationalize in order to justify doing the things they want to do anyway. Why would the BoS be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talwyn224 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the replies :thumbsup: Indeed people change their minds and rationalize many ideas and concepts that are incongruous, antithetical or hypocritical to one another. And I agree that the tasks that the Courier does for the BoS are not your usual favours. Yet Veronica, who is a in-house member, gets shafted even though she brings back examples of technology that show that the BoS have to change their ways. And at the same time, Elder MacNamarra is happy to train you in power armour usage & give you the key to the club house even though they've only known you for a short while. And unfortunately for them, as DeusExElysium has pointed out, you can them blew them all to hell if you choose to do so. Again... that just makes me go... huh!?! :rolleyes: It strikes me that they trust a stranger who's done albeit large favours for them far too much and ignore and belittle one of their own all too easily. For a supposedly advanced group, this its just plain stupidity and I feel is a weakness of the writers plotting of the games narrative structure. Maybe though this is why the BoS are doomed anyway, they are too idiotic for their own good. They can't see the massive potential threat to their existence by letting in a stranger and can't see that they should listen to one of their own members. Hmm...I think on my next play through I'll just kill them all for being the idiots that they are. Edited February 16, 2012 by Talwyn224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It may be because they see her as a issue and not you. As said before they view you as an extremely valuable asset. They don't see veronica with the same value they see you with. I can see the logic in their decision for sure, and I don't think it is a writing issue. They are however bending the rules, and even being hypocritical to a certain degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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