Creation Club Summer 2017

[DogtoothCG]

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

Edited June 15, 2017 by DogtoothCG

[Alexotero1219]

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

This. People often bring up legal action without completely understanding how much it actually costs. That is to say heaps.

 

Most companies don't put their lawyers to work unless its a super serious issue.

 

Even though I personally dislike the idea of charging for mod files Im inclined to agree that I doubt bethesda would go that far simply because it would cost them a whole lot of money.

[TLOak]

 

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

This. People often bring up legal action without completely understanding how much it actually costs. That is to say heaps.

 

Most companies don't put their lawyers to work unless its a super serious issue.

 

Even though I personally dislike the idea of charging for mod files Im inclined to agree that I doubt bethesda would go that far simply because it would cost them a whole lot of money.

 

Well I can't help but think you're missing the rather obvious and rather infamous "cease and desist" letter that has killed mods so often in the past. Admittedly that is more common on Moddb. In remains key, however, that an official looking statement and threat can be very persuasive.

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

 

 

bluesunmerc

I get where you're coming from but I'd have to be optimistic on this one and say that they'd be crazy to go down that route. You can justify new custom content like armors or weapons or even fishing mini games. I could be wrong and they could go so low as to do what you're saying.

 

 

 

 

 

MrJoseCuervo, on 15 Jun 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

Putting ethical rules, the environment or harming their employees aside this is pretty much the model here in the US. Shareholders above all.

 

Capitalism 101. Lol.

Oh, for sure. They may be dumb but I don't think/ would hope that they weren't dumb enough to try any legal action against mod authors. Then again several other companies have taken down youtube videos for less and cancelled fan made content with copyright claims and dcma take downs. I doubt it will get to that, but anything is possible.

 

But as I was typing something else came to mind that no one has really touched on (at least that I have noticed)

Almost all of the weapon mods on the nexus are of real world weapons. This would mean under the creation club the mod author would either have to get permission from the people who have the rights to weapon or they couldn't make it. Right now its not a big deal but now that money is exchanging hands this will definitely become an issue. This is at least the case for weapons on the creation club the nexus would still be the same. I believe some mod authors (maybe all) go through the proper channels and ask permission to use the weapons likeness. Using my magic crystal ball I do foresee Bethesda getting into legal trouble some time in the future over a mod and it using copyrighted material (They may be a big business but they are not all knowing and some people are crafty and at some point I see someone using something that is copyrighted and Bethesda not noticing it) there is probably a clause when you are accepted in the creation club saying Bethesda is not responsible for any copyright infringements and any legal action falls to the author of the mod of course you would have to be well versed in your legal speak to pick up on it. Again with money being made anyone who can try to get a slice of the pie is going to try.

You're referring to firearms like Colt ect.?

 

Yeah thats possible and if beth fails to curate properly (which seems likely) they could run into issues.

 

That being said a lot of those firearm companies (armalite, colt, sig ect.) aren't known for suing people for copyright violations. They probably prefer their weapons are in movies/video games/pictures and shows simply to get people interested in purchasing them. Also the "likeness" of a firearm (barrel, magazine, silhouette, stock and grip ect.) isn't able to be trademarked, only the name. So its very easy to circumvent if you receive a take down notice or letter, simply change the name, so its unlikely people would actually even pay them royalties so they probably don't care.

 

As for the other stuff beth can't legally produce a contract on behalf of armalite. Armalite would need to be privy to the agreement and fully aware of its contents before also agreeing to it. Basically bethesda can't claim they have no responsibility for publishing copyright violations. Even if the mod author signs the agreement armalite did not so they could bring whoever they want to court and would most likely target bethesda and their substantially fatter pockets if they actually cared enough to pursue legal action over something like that (they dont). You can't absolve yourself of responsibility for damaging one party because a different party agreed to the agreement lol. (hey jim! sign this contract that absolves me of responsibility for any injuries fred suffers after i punch him!)

Ahh ok not a lawyer and I definitely see what you mean about them wanting essentially free advertising. I still say that some legalese will be in that contract when ever you sign up to creation club.

 

For sure there will be some sort of agreement for signing up to the CC. I just doubt that beth will try and push the modder to take all the risk for copyright lawsuits. Their lawyers at least would know that they can't really do that.

 

The very real concerns over this system is just the business and community side of it.

 

Personally Im concerned the system, due to it being widely unpopular, is going to fail miserably while at the same time pissing off both mod users and mod authors. Quality mods could disappear as the community goes into firestorm mode like the original attempt and peoples passion for their projects kinda dies down or authors wait to put paid content on the CC and no longer work on their free content. Users ultimately don't buy content from the CC and mod authors dont put free mods up anymore. No one makes any money and people just stop being interested in mods because it becomes nothing more than a skin market cash grab.

 

Personally I dont think this is going to be the end of modding but I definitely could see a huge "slow down" period before bethesda either ends the CC or users and mod authors simply move on to modding other games.

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

This. People often bring up legal action without completely understanding how much it actually costs. That is to say heaps.

 

Most companies don't put their lawyers to work unless its a super serious issue.

 

Even though I personally dislike the idea of charging for mod files Im inclined to agree that I doubt bethesda would go that far simply because it would cost them a whole lot of money.

 

Well I can't help but think you're missing the rather obvious and rather infamous "cease and desist" letter that has killed mods so often in the past. Admittedly that is more common on Moddb. In remains key, however, that an official looking statement and threat can be very persuasive.

 

I didn't miss that. I said it in one of my earlier posts.

 

Beth can send cease and desist letters at any time and that is a real concern for shutting down mod authors and their work.

 

I was just clarifying that it is highly unlikely that any mod author is going to actually be brought to court over the issue and if he is its unlikely that the case would play out in the way the other poster indicated.

 

Of course not everyone has money for lawyers to fight a case for them so cease and desist letters can be very threatening as you said.

[TLOak]

 

 

Personally Im concerned the system, due to it being widely unpopular, is going to fail miserably while at the same time pissing off both mod users and mod authors. Quality mods could disappear as the community goes into firestorm mode like the original attempt and peoples passion for their projects kinda dies down or authors wait to put paid content on the CC and no longer work on their free content. Users ultimately don't buy content from the CC and mod authors dont put free mods up anymore. No one makes any money and people just stop being interested in mods because it becomes nothing more than a skin market cash grab.

 

Personally I dont think this is going to be the end of modding but I definitely could see a huge "slow down" period before bethesda either ends the CC or users and mod authors simply move on to modding other games.

 

 

 

 

I think that is a great tragedy of this situation.

 

This could work and benefit everyone everywhere.

But it won't, at least I don't think it will.

 

 

I'm reminded of the mod Nvidia did, of a spooky vault I think(?), I never downloaded much to my displeasure. But.

 

If Bethesda had set this CC up as a way for people to create more of that and to a high sheen, then it would be a different story- I feel.

[DogtoothCG]

Apologies if I wasn't clear; though it is possible that your referencing mods in general, and not directly competing content; However, it is Bethesda's position that they will not be taking any action against two directly competing products. That gives me an abundance of evidence to point towards them having zero interest in even sending a C&D to Joe and Sally MA for a completely unrelated mod.

[TLOak]

 

 

 

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

This. People often bring up legal action without completely understanding how much it actually costs. That is to say heaps.

 

Most companies don't put their lawyers to work unless its a super serious issue.

 

Even though I personally dislike the idea of charging for mod files Im inclined to agree that I doubt bethesda would go that far simply because it would cost them a whole lot of money.

 

Well I can't help but think you're missing the rather obvious and rather infamous "cease and desist" letter that has killed mods so often in the past. Admittedly that is more common on Moddb. In remains key, however, that an official looking statement and threat can be very persuasive.

 

I didn't miss that. I said it in one of my earlier posts.

 

Beth can send cease and desist letters at any time and that is a real concern for shutting down mod authors and their work.

 

I was just clarifying that it is highly unlikely that any mod author is going to actually be brought to court over the issue and if he is its unlikely that the case would play out in the way the other poster indicated.

 

Of course not everyone has money for lawyers to fight a case for them so cease and desist letters can be very threatening as you said.

 

 

You'll forgive me, I'm sure, I am newly awake and have caught the tail end of the conversation through the night.

 

 

As far as I know the case has never been raised, stakes are too high as it were (at least for now). I mean in English Law and certainly Scots, Precedent is a powerful thing.

[TLOak]

Apologies if I wasn't clear; though it is possible that your referencing mods in general, and not directly competing content; However, it is Bethesda's position that they will not be taking any action against two directly competing products. That gives me an abundance of evidence to point towards them having zero interest in even sending a C&D to Joe and Sally MA for a completely unrelated mod.

That is of some comfort, with caveats of course and if Bethesda really does have a policy of not challenging a free product against their own then I would say it is something of a small victory, at least in my eyes.

 

Of course time tells and, in my opinion, misses where Bethesda could have really been helpful in the modding community.

 

If we accept that part of this really is to help Modders increase their portfolio and such then, once more, I say it should be a more...ambitious system.

 

 

But, again, who really cares what I think?

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

 

The idea that Bethesda or Zenimax will be sending they're lawyers after anyone is a bit of a grasp at the thought of the "evil" of this new campaign isn't it? I am aware that the Creation Club trailer has shown a version of the Chinese Stealth Suit, and the FAQ page shows images of the Hellfire Power Armor; the version of the Chinese Stealth Suit already available on Nexus and Bethnet is in no danger of being taken down, and our version of the Hellfire Power Armor has been given the go ahead, despite releasing alongside its payed counterpart. It is wholly unlikely that they will act in a litigious manner in response to any competing products, lest it becomes a trend for people to recreate free versions of payed content in a serial manner.

This. People often bring up legal action without completely understanding how much it actually costs. That is to say heaps.

 

Most companies don't put their lawyers to work unless its a super serious issue.

 

Even though I personally dislike the idea of charging for mod files Im inclined to agree that I doubt bethesda would go that far simply because it would cost them a whole lot of money.

 

Well I can't help but think you're missing the rather obvious and rather infamous "cease and desist" letter that has killed mods so often in the past. Admittedly that is more common on Moddb. In remains key, however, that an official looking statement and threat can be very persuasive.

 

I didn't miss that. I said it in one of my earlier posts.

 

Beth can send cease and desist letters at any time and that is a real concern for shutting down mod authors and their work.

 

I was just clarifying that it is highly unlikely that any mod author is going to actually be brought to court over the issue and if he is its unlikely that the case would play out in the way the other poster indicated.

 

Of course not everyone has money for lawyers to fight a case for them so cease and desist letters can be very threatening as you said.

 

You'll forgive me, I'm sure, I am newly awake and have caught the tail end of the conversation through the night.

 

 

As far as I know the case has never been raised, stakes are too high as it were (at least for now). I mean in English Law and certainly Scots, Precedent is a powerful thing.

 

Not a problem.

 

Also I can say, having worked in the legal field, that the dreaded cease and desist letter can cost up to 10 grand just to send depending on what exactly you want it to say and how much work you want your lawyer to do.

 

People often think the law is super serious and that the hammer is going to drop on you instantly if you even come close to violating it but from what ive seen alot of being a lawyer (esp corporate one) is sending VERY strongly worded letters that you have no hope of backing up and just hoping the other person stops because if he doesn't that could easily mean 500 grand or a whole lot more down the drain for something incredibly stupid.