SilverDNA Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Raging and supporting out loose punishment is one thing but what about valor or honor? Is honor not lost in this ravaging? In my opinion yes, because it is focused solely on the punishment.. Who are the real victims? The veterans that lost a limb or are paraplegics, suffer from PTSD are the most are more egregious examples. Not that I do not understand the anger, but in this matter what is more honorable, crying out loose punishment or focusing on how veterans that return from a war with severe disabilities are treated by their country. Especially how they are treated by the individuals of a society when confronted with them? In a country where the 2nd survivor is only 1st loser where people that never have witnessed war can spit in physical or in verbal form, in public on a server disabled veteran person. A real truly honorable and heroic disabled veteran might then take up the point of PTSD and claim that having a PTSD as veteran is bad, but it is even worse if a child that is sexually abused and much younger when it develops a PTSD has to struggle with a PTSD in childhood than soldier who was willing to fight for his/her country and did know the risks. And even a not so truly heroic character might point out that most Veterans with a PTSD get into trouble with the Law after service for their country and end up getting into to legal trouble. A British study reveals that over 50% of veterans with a PTSD get in civilian live in trouble with the law. Is there a responsibility from the country and the people of such a country for those veterans which have fought for it? I say yes! However now lets take a look at the typical officer to the enlisted soldiers. Why do most of them join the military? And how are they treated if they come back from war with a limb lost and a PTSD? In my opinion there are some countries, mine included, that lost in this more honour in manhandling the dignity and rights of such honourable persons than in losing a war. On the case especial I want to raise awareness to the point why it is so desirable to imposter a veteran or a military-affiliated in a country that has a high desire to keep much military if you would please read this well-known story to Germans. A true story of the "Hauptmann von Köpenick" aka "Wilhelm Voigt (WIkipedia link) . There isn't a long line from a deceiver to a local hero, in Willhelm Voigts case it might be mentioned that the punishment was rightful and just for its time in my personal view. I didn't follow the complete case in all aspects now but I hope that the punishment is not exemplary and hard, but fair and just and as far as I read up the particular case that the op mentioned there it would be good to mention that it raised awareness to the hereby me posted above 1st two paragraphs. In my opinion these are more important than the case itself. Edit :What is valor in war worth without honor and at least the same dignity and rights after a war than non-disabled persons? Edited February 21, 2012 by SilverDNA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Now that is my link to this topic ... HE WILL NEVER FORGET ... Wherever he goes he will be remembered as the man who tried to impersonate a hero and failed, surely that is a punishment not soon forgotten.They say that the worst kind of pain is not physical pain but rather the pain of regret.I personally am very much against what I see as over-legislation, something I think that the US suffers greatly from. Also, tacked onto this, is legislating common sense...anyway, your point, as well as Aurielius's initial remarks on tarring and feathering, are what I think would be most appropriate. I only see two large problems. One, is that this guy won't regret it like a father who shot his own daughter. I have my doubts that he would, left on his own, even regret it at all. And two, I fear we have a society that wouldn't give a rat's behind in effectively socially ostracizing this guy. That's a kind of socially-enforced punishment that had power at one time. Not now, though. Even if the guy lived in a small town, all he'd have to do was move to another one. In a bigger city, at most he'd have to move to another suburb. I think most people care little about honor and valor these days. I think they're concepts that are becoming nebulous. Most people, I think, judge their actions by Right and Wrong according to the Law, and that's a different thing entirely. Who talks about honor these days in conversations? As a way to live by, when it used to be the coin of the realm (long ago enough...)? How can such "vague" concepts compare to Oprah's weight gain/loss or Britney's new bra size? Or the latest MickyD's sandwich? I mean, come on...you can put your mouth around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Oh yeah, the Wiz is back!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No absolutely not ,he is an idiot and that's all .Let me get this straight it's a Medal of Honor , something that speaks for itself , well at least of those who hold one and this person who lied about having one instead of being shamed and forgotten is having his lie immortalized by people who want to bring him to trial in court .which will be written down for all time. Talk about elevating his stupidity and taking a lot of shine off of what a Medal of Honor means. Take him to court and you take the Medal to court , a civilian court and that enters it into the mundane.If I was the military I would put a stop to this . It's a dumb thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No absolutely not ,he is an idiot and that's all .Let me get this straight it's a Medal of Honor , something that speaks for itself , well at least of those who hold one and this person who lied about having one instead of being shamed and forgotten is having his lie immortalized by people who want to bring him to trial in court .which will be written down for all time. Talk about elevating his stupidity and taking a lot of shine off of what a Medal of Honor means. Take him to court and you take the Medal to court , a civilian court and that enters it into the mundane.If I was the military I would put a stop to this . It's a dumb thing to do.That's a very interesting point you make, Harbinge. Ignoring something and not giving it importance is one of the biggest Dispel spells that there is in the world. Still leaves me with a desire for punishment/ridicule, though. Makes me think even more so that social ostracizing would be the best option. Too bad it isn't as simple as dumping his butt outside of the city's walls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) No absolutely not ,he is an idiot and that's all .Let me get this straight it's a Medal of Honor , something that speaks for itself , well at least of those who hold one and this person who lied about having one instead of being shamed and forgotten is having his lie immortalized by people who want to bring him to trial in court .which will be written down for all time. Talk about elevating his stupidity and taking a lot of shine off of what a Medal of Honor means. Take him to court and you take the Medal to court , a civilian court and that enters it into the mundane.If I was the military I would put a stop to this . It's a dumb thing to do.That's a very interesting point you make, Harbinge. Ignoring something and not giving it importance is one of the biggest Dispel spells that there is in the world. Still leaves me with a desire for punishment/ridicule, though. Makes me think even more so that social ostracizing would be the best option. Too bad it isn't as simple as dumping his butt outside of the city's walls... The problem with ignoring them is that it gives tacit permission to continue rather than sanctions to force them to desist. If we were back in the days of the Roman Republic then banishment would have real consequences forcing someone to leave the civilized world for life beyond the frontiers.....but that is no longer is a viable option. So legal remedies are all we are left with and a court case far from lionizing someone exposes them to permanent ridicule, is attached to whatever background search that an prospective employer does...a real penalty with economic consequences. Think in terms of the OJ Simpson case, he may have avoided prison but is a social pariah, so the more publicity the better. A trial is the modern equivalent of tar and feathers, we are just shy of the rail ride out of town but society will provide an equivalence for us. If I seem vengeful I am sorry but these poltroons offend me to the core of my being to do less would not be keeping faith with absent friends who payed the ultimate price. Edited February 22, 2012 by Aurielius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Think in terms of the OJ Simpson case, he may have avoided prison but is a social pariah, so the more publicity the better.That's an excellent point. He became a joke. No one looked at that man the same way after that trial (the first one). He became an idol to idiots and evil people, but he was sort of dead in a lot of normal people's eyes. He certainly was in mine.If throwing this guy over the city's walls isn't going to happen, then perhaps the media should get involved and ridicule the man with enough momentum that it carries on into people's lives so that the man effectively has a permanent "L" branded onto his forehead.The Middle Ages were filled with all manner of public humiliation-based punishments, so that everyone knew just what you'd been up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If throwing this guy over the city's walls isn't going to happen, then perhaps the media should get involved and ridicule the man with enough momentum that it carries on into people's lives so that the man effectively has a permanent "L" branded onto his forehead.So, an update for all of you still living in the '90s: OJ got arrested and sent to prison on armed robbery and kidnapping charges, like, five years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) If throwing this guy over the city's walls isn't going to happen, then perhaps the media should get involved and ridicule the man with enough momentum that it carries on into people's lives so that the man effectively has a permanent "L" branded onto his forehead.So, an update for all of you still living in the '90s: OJ got arrested and sent to prison on armed robbery and kidnapping charges, like, five years ago.boy, you can't really post much without being an arrogant *insert*, can you? Or making snide little remarks or flipping out, I guess I should add as well. At least if you are going to be a smart ???, try to figure out what we're talking about first. H-E-L-L-O-O-O, for everybody living in the third millennium, we were talking about the murder trial. Not the civil case that followed, nor the subsequent armed robbery....all easily understandable in context with someone pointing out that he avoided going to prison...H-E-L-L-O-O-O. Edited February 23, 2012 by WizardOfAtlantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddah Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Seems this has strayed quite far from the topic, so it deserves to get >LOCKED< There is a difference between a debate and pointed attacks, I suggest following the debate format....and leave the attacks off of these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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