About Akavir ...

[BrettM]

I haven't played any of the previous TES games. Akavir sounds interesting. However, in terms of Skyrim DLC, I think I would much rather see Atmora, which is not only directly related to the Nords but is even more mysterious. Not everyone left Atmora to move to Tamriel, so why has there been no further contact? What kind of civilization do they have there now, assuming it survived? If it didn't survive, why not? (It does seem to have survived long enough to produce Tiber Septim, quite a long time after Ysgrammor's day.)

 

According to The Dragon War, Atmora also had dragons and Dragon Priests, but the Priests maintained the peace between dragons and men. Is this still the case? Inquiring dovahkiin want to know. There might be much to learn there from any dragons that remain.

 

It is also curious that human architecture and engineering seems to have devolved in Tamriel. The early immigrants built incredible cities such as Saarthal, Bromjunaar, Skuldalfn Temple, and High Hrothgar. Windhelm was basically built as a beachhead for Ysgrammor's re-invasion after the Night of Tears, yet is far more advanced than modern Nord construction. But it has not held up well over the centuries, though it has been continuously inhabited. It's as if the Nords lost the skill to maintain what those coming from Atmora knew how to build. Dragonsreach is pretty impressive, but doesn't really hold a candle to those original structures. Everything after that seems to have devolved into thatched huts, except for those living in Dwemer ruins like a bunch of human Falmer. What sort of cities might we find in Atmora if they were building cities like Saarthal on a frontier?

 

Not to derail the thread, but I think I would find Atmora much more relevant to Skyrim than Akavir.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Several things wrong with this.

 

1: "they would never depict Nerevar so that they don't invalidate someones race/class/gender choice". Except for the fact that they have already done so. The Champion of Cyrodiil is in Skyrim, and he is an older Imperial gentleman.

 

2: I was referring to The Neravarine, not Neravar Indoril, who has definately been defined as a Chimer in lore.

 

3: Argonians were not created by the Hist. They simply have a symbiotic relationship with them. Hist are trees, and are not intelligent.

1. Sheogorath's appearance in Skyrim due to mantling, which alters the shape and form of the manteler into that of the mantele. Sheogorath may be a Imperial man in Skyrim, but as the CoC he could have been any race and gender.

 

2. The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Lord Nerevar, and thus can be called Nerevar, as he/she often is by people on forums.

 

3. You are very wrong here. The Hist trees are known to be sentient, and are believed to worship Sithis. The Hist are living, thinking trees, who communicate with the Argonian ruling party, the An-Xileel.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hist

 

The Hist foresaw the arrival of Dagon in ES4:Oblivion and called the Argonians back to them to defend Black Marsh, it was this independent defense of their own home that started the anti-Imperial sentiment that caused them to break away from The Empire. I suggest you read The Infernal City.

I haven't played any of the previous TES games. Akavir sounds interesting. However, in terms of Skyrim DLC, I think I would much rather see Atmora, which is not only directly related to the Nords but is even more mysterious. Not everyone left Atmora to move to Tamriel, so why has there been no further contact? What kind of civilization do they have there now, assuming it survived? If it didn't survive, why not? (It does seem to have survived long enough to produce Tiber Septim, quite a long time after Ysgrammor's day.)

 

According to The Dragon War, Atmora also had dragons and Dragon Priests, but the Priests maintained the peace between dragons and men. Is this still the case? Inquiring dovahkiin want to know. There might be much to learn there from any dragons that remain.

 

It is also curious that human architecture and engineering seems to have devolved in Tamriel. The early immigrants built incredible cities such as Saarthal, Bromjunaar, Skuldalfn Temple, and High Hrothgar. Windhelm was basically built as a beachhead for Ysgrammor's re-invasion after the Night of Tears, yet is far more advanced than modern Nord construction. But it has not held up well over the centuries, though it has been continuously inhabited. It's as if the Nords lost the skill to maintain what those coming from Atmora knew how to build. Dragonsreach is pretty impressive, but doesn't really hold a candle to those original structures. Everything after that seems to have devolved into thatched huts, except for those living in Dwemer ruins like a bunch of human Falmer. What sort of cities might we find in Atmora if they were building cities like Saarthal on a frontier?

The Nords left Atmora because it was freezing over, and it had frozen over completely before the 1st era began, no one lives there now, or has in a very long time.

 

Also Tiber Septim came from the High Rock island of Alcaire. Him coming from Atmora was stuff he made up.

Edited March 7, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[magiii]

1: "they would never depict Nerevar so that they don't invalidate someones race/class/gender choice". Except for the fact that they have already done so. The Champion of Cyrodiil is in Skyrim, and he is an older Imperial gentleman.

 

and how is that?

[sajuukkhar9000]

and how is that?

Mantling, it is the process in which one person acts like another so much that they became indistinguishable and thus literally become the same person.

 

Though mantling someone takes extreme effort.

Edited March 7, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[magiii]

The Nords left Atmora because it was freezing over, and it had frozen over completely before the 1st era began, no one lives there now, or has in a very long time.

yes this is true. however there is a little problem. in the wolf queen series book 4 the translator says he can speak atmoran.

 

"I am fluent in the languages of four continents," said the translator. "I can speak to the denizens of my own country Pyandonea, as well as those of Atmora, Akavir, and here, in Tamriel. Yours is the easiest, actually. I was looking forward to this voyage."

 

and this was in 3E 109. if no one lived in atmora then why he had to learn the language? i guess some scattered little tribes still live there. they may be like real world Eskimos.

[BrettM]

Maybe he learned it from the Draugr? Aside from shouts, they certainly seem to speak the language of the early Nords, which I would assume is Atmoran. I ran across a strange book when I rented a room at the Winking Skeever that was written by someone who claimed to have lived among the Draugr for a while, gaining their trust. (Sort of the Jane Goodall of Skyrim, I guess. Very amusing.)

[sajuukkhar9000]

The Nords left Atmora because it was freezing over, and it had frozen over completely before the 1st era began, no one lives there now, or has in a very long time.

yes this is true. however there is a little problem. in the wolf queen series book 4 the translator says he can speak atmoran.

 

"I am fluent in the languages of four continents," said the translator. "I can speak to the denizens of my own country Pyandonea, as well as those of Atmora, Akavir, and here, in Tamriel. Yours is the easiest, actually. I was looking forward to this voyage."

 

and this was in 3E 109. if no one lived in atmora then why he had to learn the language? i guess some scattered little tribes still live there. they may be like real world Eskimos.

There's also books that state only the blood heir of Alessia can wear the Amulet of Kings, which has been proven wrong.(you don't know how many times I've had to tell people that Mankar Cameron was dragonborn, which is why he could wear the amulet in Oblivion).

 

Also the story of which you quote is just that, a story, and like most stories it is often embellished and/or plain inaccurate. You have to remember the books are made from a in-universe character point of view, and they suffer from all the historical inaccuracies we do in real life, and suffer from all the other ego, embellishment, cultural biased, flaws we do. In-game books should be treated with a, relatively small, grain of salt.

 

Thirdly, it is very possible that there are a rare and scattered people who speak Atmorian, but they would be in Skyrim, not Atmora itself.

 

 

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_17

Also, according to the 36 lessons of Vivec, when Vivec and Nerevar traveled to Atmora, "They walked to the north to the Elder Wood and found nothing but frozen bearded kings.", implying everything is frozen over.

 

And that was in the first Era.

Edited March 8, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[bpestilence]

and how is that?

Mantling, it is the process in which one person acts like another so much that they became indistinguishable and thus literally become the same person.

 

Though mantling someone takes extreme effort.

 

It is a nice explanation but does not stand up to Occum's Razor.

 

In any case, TES is a complex universe. It is impossible to avoid player paradoxes and inconsistancies. If Bethesda does send up to Akavir, there is no reason why they would not have The Neravarine there. Hell, if you don't agree with his appearance, you can just say he "Mantled" Neravar Indoril.

[sajuukkhar9000]

It is a nice explanation but does not stand up to Occum's Razor.

 

In any case, TES is a complex universe. It is impossible to avoid player paradoxes and inconsistancies. If Bethesda does send up to Akavir, there is no reason why they would not have The Neravarine there. Hell, if you don't agree with his appearance, you can just say he "Mantled" Neravar Indoril.

That isn't possible for two reasons

 

1. The Nerevar is a reincarnation, and reincarnation is different from mantling, and pretty much makes him immune from mantling.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree

"Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you."

 

 

2. Mantling can only occur if the mantiler preforms a mythic act, that makes him the same as the person he is trying to mantle. The CoC was only able to mantle Sheogorath because he made the staff like Sheo, who is really Arden-Sul who mantled the Sheo before him, did before, sat on the throne like Sheo, and ruled like Sheo. To mantle Nerevar one would have to preform whatever mythic act that made him so, which is to say he would have to be born the Nerevarine, and fulfill the Nerevarine prophecies, which is impossible because they have all been fulfilled.

 

One cannot walk the path of Nerevar, and thus one cannot make Nerevar walk like them.

 

 

3. Don't try to bring up silly things like Occum's Razor. It really just makes you look like your arguing for the sake of arguing and not to provide and real discussion.

Edited March 9, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[magiii]

so what about arteum?( i spelled right?) it was disappeared about 200 years ago and its house of the most powerful wizards in whole nirn. it would be a nice touch to go there for a pure mage character. Edited March 9, 2012 by magiii