SSE Need help with skeleton and crossbows.

[SkyPainCake]

Hey all!

I've been trying to fix crossbow issue I am having in my mod ("Visible Favorited Gear") lately. Since I am absolutely bad with nifskope and skeletons I was postponing this moment, but decided to give it a go and tried to understand how to edit skeleton files. Navigating in all those nodes isn't the simplest task, but in the end I think it's much harder to fix this problem than just simply re-positioning nodes.

 

The first question is really simple, and doesn't have to do with my actual problem. Why when I try to transition some nodes in vanilla skeleton file (for example WeaponDagger to -22 on X axis) it doesn't take any effect, but it does when I try to do the same in custom skeleton (xpmsse in this case)? Am I moving wrong nodes or something?

 

And now comes the hard part.

So, I was trying to find crossbow related nodes in skeleton.nif file only to find out that it doesn't contain any info regarding crossbows.

It seems like crossbows use bow nodes BUT after you equip crossbow it moves closer to character model. You can notice it as soon as you switch between two sheathed weapons (let's say between crossbow and greatsword). For split second when you switch from greatsword to crossbow, it appears a few inches away from character model then moves closer to body mesh.

 

Here is how it looks like in vanilla game, when you equip crossbow and sheathe it:

https://imgur.com/bR1suim

 

Now, when you turn bDisableGearedUp function off, crossbow looks like this:

https://imgur.com/8eS1JXT

 

It basically appears on the spot where bows should be:

https://imgur.com/6isQLho

 

I think they did it so that crossbow model wouldn't float so far away from body.

The problem is when you equip crossbow, it moves closer to body by some value on xy axis but every other weapon does the same thing by xy axis:

https://imgur.com/gDpYMkH

 

Compare it to screenshot number 2... When you equip crossbow, greatsword moves toward the center into body mesh, iron axe, and legion sword into heaps etc.

 

Does somebody have any single clue how can I fix it?

[SkyPainCake]

So far I tried to alter "Weapon adjust" values in Armor Addon to change the position of crossbow. it has no effect on crossbows.

I also tried to transition crossbow by z axis in NifSkope. When I put it far away from body mesh, it simply ignores custom changes and moves model to the same location near body mesh (and moving the rest of the gear to the center).

 

UPD: I experimented with crossbow.nif file a little bit more, and tried to set crossbow into dagger slot. It does the same thing. You can see that it uses normal dagger position then when you equip it model moves to the center as it does from bow slot. Simply put, when you equip crossbow, all gear transitions closer to the model center no matter what slot is occupied. This is driving me crazy. I have no idea what is triggering thisl

Edited July 2, 2017 by SkyPainCake

[Kain1985]

Well I think that nobody fix this issue.

It just looks like crossbows use their own skeleton somehow. Any modifications on skeleton not stop this problem.

 

I think that bethesda when add crossbow to game they did that in some fast and easy way. After all they didn't plan to put to game stuff like Visible All Favorite Weapons so they didn't care about this.

If this problem would only have crossbow it would be able to play but this also moove all other weapons and this sucks.

 

It is shame really since this eliminate crossbows from game ,at least for me. And I would most definatelly favorite crossbow instead of bow.

[fore]

Well I think that nobody fix this issue.

It just looks like crossbows use their own skeleton somehow. Any modifications on skeleton not stop this problem.

 

I think that bethesda when add crossbow to game they did that in some fast and easy way. After all they didn't plan to put to game stuff like Visible All Favorite Weapons so they didn't care about this.

If this problem would only have crossbow it would be able to play but this also moove all other weapons and this sucks.

 

It is shame really since this eliminate crossbows from game ,at least for me. And I would most definatelly favorite crossbow instead of bow.

 

Maybe I misunderstand your issue. But crossbows aren't made fast and easy. That's how it is always done since using Havok. Bows have it, levers, traps,... Every mesh that deforms has its own skeleton and is implemented just like actors. With animations and behaviors.

 

You can look into the behavior files like the ones for characters and creatures. Using hkxcmd, and maybe CondenseBehavior. Maybe you find your transition there.

[Kain1985]

Probably modification of some Idle animation can fix that.

But the issue here is more of skeleton positioning I guess. I'am not specialist in graphic modification so I cannot be sure.

 

The problem can be noticed only with some mod that allow all Your weapons to be visible. When You select sword for example the crossbow position is +/- ok. But when You select crossbow it not only flew away from Your body but also all other weapons on You are drawn to center of person. And no mather to which bone the crossbow will be assigned it still behave the same.

 

And only crossbows create this issues. Thta is why I said that crossbows was implemented fast and easy because only they have this problems and no other weapon in game.

[fore]

Probably modification of some Idle animation can fix that.

But the issue here is more of skeleton positioning I guess. I'am not specialist in graphic modification so I cannot be sure.

 

The problem can be noticed only with some mod that allow all Your weapons to be visible. When You select sword for example the crossbow position is +/- ok. But when You select crossbow it not only flew away from Your body but also all other weapons on You are drawn to center of person. And no mather to which bone the crossbow will be assigned it still behave the same.

 

And only crossbows create this issues. Thta is why I said that crossbows was implemented fast and easy because only they have this problems and no other weapon in game.

 

Understood. I hadn't read the previous posts carefully enough.

 

But I think you are a little unfair blaming Beth here. I mean it takes a mod to watch several weapons at the same time. That's not what the animators have implemented. When they have implemented an equip animations for crossbows they didn't have to check if the animation tool they are using is changing the node for the sword. That is not used at this time.

 

IFFFF this is Bethesda. Are you using custom crossbow animations by any chance? Because I have seen similar effects when I have modified existing animations. The conversion tool we have and which are necessary to export/import animations before we can modify them in 3ds are buggy and make all kind nonsense.

[Kain1985]

No I personally have only vanilla animations in use. Custom animations make to much issues in SE version of the game.

 

And as I said previously I understand that they din't check other weapons position since they didn't implemented options to see all weapons at once.

To bad thou ,of course it is not an issue if somebody prefere to play with first person view only.

 

Well I have to accept this. If I will wont to se my dovah in third person I must have other weapon as active but when I will activate crossbow then I must jump to first person.

 

I hope that Beth will take under consideration modders and they will fix this issue with some next update.