Wearing a Stealth Boy makes you invisible but adds rads

[devinpatterson]

Ooops I should clarify, psychosis (sans for permanent penalties) stealthboy radiation, not rads in general...as this seems to mimic the results nightkin suffer. I do see and understand permanent penalties for normal (hard) radiation. I don't know of any mental illness from normal(hard) rads (but I'm not very informed re: the subject).

[darlingg]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms : neurovascular effects include cognitive impairment, seizures, tremor, uncoordinated movement, lethargy, death. But the effects of radiation in the Fallout games are not limited to the realistic, but what was understood in 1950's sci-fi, and/or co,mbining with or triggering fictitious bioweapons like the Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV), and/or fictitious drugs like Healing Powder, Stimpack, Rad-X & RadAway. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Environment and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis#Causes . Anyway, I'd say we're free to go with whatever's consistent with the rest of the game.

[devinpatterson]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms : neurovascular effects include cognitive impairment, seizures, tremor, uncoordinated movement, lethargy, death.

Sure, but I'm referring primarily to fallout's interpretation of radiation. However even if it was interpreted in light of real world effects of ionizing radiation, psychiatric disorders aren't an associated syndrome (that I'm aware off), other than post trumatic stress (which would be associated with the exposure incident, not the actual ionizing radiation's effect on neural tissue). Which is why I think the stealthboy radiation is a peculiar effect unique unto itself.

 

Here are a few examples (from a quick skim of the wiki) that really highlights the stealthboy's unique effects on the brain;

 

 

 

nightkin exhibit bonafide psychiatric disorders like "aggressive, paranoid, and in some cases severely delusional." behavior. From teh wiki (and in reference to nightkin) "The cause of their paranoia is schizophrenia developed from constant use of the Stealth Boys"

 

From the stealthboy wiki entry; "Prolonged, repeated usage of Stealth Boys have been found to have unpleasant mental side-effects, causing anxiety, paranoia, wild mood swings, and even schizophrenia and dementia. These effects take a long time to manifest in humans (the player can use Stealth Boys without any negative effects), although they appear only after a few uses when used by Nightkin."

 

A little van buren entry (not strictly canon) "Some time after they acquired the Stealth Boy technology, the Brotherhood of Steel experimented with those devices. When the side effects were discovered, the devices were banned and the team disbanded."

 

 

 

So long winded story short, I think the stealthboy raidation is markedly differnt in it's fundamental nature than ionizing/hard radition. It seems to have a specific effect on the mental euilipbrium of the persistent user. I think it would be best to save the really crazy, "true" mental illness for the stealthboy side effects.....as opposed to linking them with hard radiation exposure. I think there are plenty of other effects we could make for hard radiation in it's own mod.

 

And that's not to say that a hard rad mod won't ever touch on mental effects like psychiatric disorders, but rather that it shouldn't be the main theme as the stealthboy radiation clearly is. You could have hard rad effects that cause psychiatric illness as a secondary effect from a mundane primary cause like a brain tumor (which could cause any mental illness), or a fictional primary cause, like a second brain growing within your cranium (which would cause a multiple personality disorder).

In addition the stealthboy side effects mod can also be for habitual drug use, tailored for the drug of abuse (ie Psycho resulting in more violent paranoid side effects than, say, med X).

 

But the effects of radiation in the Fallout games are not limited to the realistic, but what was understood in 1950's sci-fi, and/or co,mbining with or triggering fictitious bioweapons like the Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV),

Yep that's my interpretation of the fallout universe and the principal that I try to let guide me. And that's a big part of why I'd like to make a seperate hard rad mod that not only has more interesting negative side effects but also includes mutations (some that can even be beneficial) as one of the most interesting side effects. I think there's a great basis for it in sci-fi fiction, and I think it would be a lot of fun do do as a modder and enjoy as a player.

 

and/or fictitious drugs like Healing Powder, Stimpack, Rad-X & RadAway.

Although I would disagree with interactions with rads and the meds you have above. Rads and FEV are plenty to create havoc on the body for a good mod. I suppose stimpacks could go in the drug category though since It's probably a stimulant that can result in addiction.

 

For me, I think it differentiates into two mods, a hard rad mod and a second mod that covers stealthboy radiation and drug effects. Both could be a lot of fun and interesting to do (especially if the hard rad mod includes mutations). Thoughts?

[devinpatterson]

Actually like three mods; Radiation (hard/ionizing), stealthboy effects and last would be drug effects. But there would be a lot of exchange between them (reuse of assets). For example, the stealthboy effects mod of paranoia would be reused in the psycho addiction effects.

[darlingg]

I don't think we disagree on the essentials, but are now speculating on why some effects in the Fallout universe would be different than in our own.

Yeah, a mutated form of FEV was indeed released into the atmosphere when a nuke hit the West Tek Research Facility during the Great War. Then and since, it supposedly became widespread in the general population, but with little effect compared to raw FEV (like cowpox to smallpox), unless activated by radiation (a real-life cause of immune suppression).

In matters "radiation-crazed", we should also not forget feral ghouls, including those in Searchlight (is it normal for most ghouls to start feral anyway, or was that something special to this town? and why no Legion ghouls when Cottonwood Cove becomes equally-irradiated?)

I agree we can release Wearable Stealth Boy Adds Rads (WSBAR) now. Then later a psychosis mod that can or must also work with WSBAR, and the others you mention; or one "permanent health effects" mod that combines these, so as not to multiply mods unnecessarily. Possibly we can split off further discussion of such new project(s) into new thread(s).

I'm tending to Stealth Boy Psychosis as an addiction to Stealth Boy use, that can't be cured by a doctor or dose of Fixer, but only (in its early stages, as experienced by non-immortals) by cold turkey. The PC must not carry one in inventory for a certain time, or otherwise, is randomly forced to use it for a few seconds (this can be a general model for other addictive substances: say Fixer only suppresses the negative effects of an addiction, but the real recovery only comes from non-use for several days or more, like in real life).

[devinpatterson]

I'm tending to Stealth Boy Psychosis as an addiction to Stealth Boy use, that can't be cured by a doctor or dose of Fixer

That's an interesting idea. When we are talking about psychological addiction (not that I have any special knowledge of the subject, other than a little help from google), it's defined as a compulsion or perceived need to use. That would be a "self reinforcing" (for lack of a better term, that my sleep addled brain can produce), addiction alleviating (to some degree) the paranoia of being watched. Somewhat similar to the way Nightkin (As Marcus explains) "hate to be seen.", and going invisible alleviates some of that stress.....hiding you from the "them" (real or delusional)

 

Mostly I'm looking forward to making mutations, but the descent into madness is also an intriguing subject for a mod. In that same vein, I wonder if there might be a way to sort of "set the table" for specific paranoid/schizophrenic delusions in what appears to be a organic way to the player. Obviously some subjects like the government won't hold the same sway in the new world, but some remanant elements like the enclave could haunt the couriers thoughts. Another is of course aliens, and with more than a few bread crumbs leading to the Zetans, I could see a psychosis heading in that direction. Heck the fallout world is already a horror show, so there are ample "entities" to obsess upon.

 

I'm not sure if the best way to do this is via various auditory and visual hulicinations or another mechanic might work (and be more subtle). But if aliens or men in black appear and disappear from thin air, for example, we have a heavy handed way of forcing a narrative. I think that's the tricky part since mental illness is wholly (says the layman without any actual knowledge) a subjective experience and skewed interperatation of objective events. Which forces us to make them real (or at least real-ish) to tell the developing story. As a little bit of an aside, physical, objective evidence would always be lacking in the hullications. For example aliens killed would never leave behing a body or equipment, but the courier could still recieve insight re: his/her foes (like expierence points).

 

Anyway that's a long ramble and I'd like to hear your ideas on how to create these dark descents into madness, and the subjects/constructs thereof. A few that come to mind for me are; Gov elements, aliens, underground dwellers, something/someone controlling the couriers brain, supernatural like (ie extradimisional creatures percieved as demons by people of the past), the courrier is being experimented upon in his/her sleep (ie being turned into a mutant or a cyborg), etc....tons of possibilities I'm sure.

 

The key is finding delusions we can implement in the game world with the tools we have on hand, but that will also capture and intrigue the player. BTW we can use a bink command to play some dream or dream sequences when the player goes to sleep (although they are costly in terms of size/MBs, and production time for vids) which I think could be a great tool for advancing the story via a sort of inner monologue.

[devinpatterson]

OK published the mod but it's pretty sparse, here is what I included;

 

title;

"Wearable & Reusable Stealth Boy Adds Rads"

 

description;

A change in game mechanics allowing the stealthboy to be worn for unlimited duration at the expense of cumilative radiation....similar to the way NightKin use them. A mod requested by Darlingg.

 

file name;

WSBARbeta2

 

I'm sure there is more that should be added, so if you'd like anything included or expanded upon just post it and I'll add it to the mod.

[darlingg]

OK published the mod but it's pretty sparse, here is what I included;

 

title;

"Wearable & Reusable Stealth Boy Adds Rads"

 

description;

A change in game mechanics allowing the stealthboy to be worn for unlimited duration at the expense of cumilative radiation....similar to the way NightKin use them. A mod requested by Darlingg.

 

file name;

WSBARbeta2

 

I'm sure there is more that should be added, so if you'd like anything included or expanded upon just post it and I'll add it to the mod.

That pretty much says it all. We can add more in response to any user questions or feedback (ex. why don't Rad Suits help here? because the special Stealth Boy radiation penetrates the body to make it transparent, etc). Thanks!

 

Minor typos: cumilative -> cumulative; WSBARbeta2 -> WARSBAR (I don't think filenames are supposed to contain version or other ephemereal info, for the sake of updates), and maybe remove from Description page.

[darlingg]

The key is finding delusions we can implement in the game world with the tools we have on hand, but that will also capture and intrigue the player. BTW we can use a bink command to play some dream or dream sequences when the player goes to sleep (although they are costly in terms of size/MBs, and production time for vids) which I think could be a great tool for advancing the story via a sort of inner monologue.

 

1. For the colour, you can always give the PC the Wild Wasteland Perk for the duration of the psychosis. Most of the encounters there are plausibly hallucinatory.

2. But for the meat of it, what makes madness a thing to be feared: randomly disguise neutral or friendly PCs, in every way short of actual behaviour, as Deathclaws or other monsters. Then, if they're killed, have them revert to their true form, and the PC realize what they've done, and the consequences that will follow.

3. And/or some totally imaginary encounters: masses of radroaches, say, that do no harm but aren't themselves affected by weapons, either. Could be awakening from sleep, with a nightmare still going on; see also See you - Time for Bed NV. These episodes can eventually vanish (for the time being) by themselves, or with a dose of Fixer.

[darlingg]

Anyway, nothing that's easily recognized as _not_ a real danger.

Edited March 22, 2018 by darlingg