Has anyone entered into Bethesda's Creation Club?

[BinakAlgo]

Hello,

 

I'm not a modder and I'll never be, my field is social sciences and I play video games.

 

Right now I'm studying about modern work and labor markets and I got interested in the "Creation Club" of Bethesda and their proposal to pay modders for content. I'm pretty sure most of you know what's this about, you all know more about than me, probably.

 

I wondering if any of you have applied to become a "Creator" because while there is plenty information about how "this is totally not paid mods guys, srly", I haven't found too much information about how the payment will be delivered to mod developers or what kind of contract they'll have to agree on. Is there going to be a contract to deliver a certain amount of content? Will the payments be "on demand" depending on content bought? What percentage will keep the dev?

 

I would like to apply myself but as I'm not a modder, I have no content to fill the full form and so far they have not replied my inquiries about it.

 

I'll glad if you can share your experiences with me in this thread. Thanks in advance.

 

If this is not the board to make this questions, I apologize.

[Reneer]

Everyone who has already been accepted into the Creation Club was made to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement upon joining, so it is unlikely that you will receive any accurate information outside of what Bethesda has posted on the Creation Club website.

 

And as someone whose field is applied psychology I can attest that it is possible to be a mod author and also pursue your field of study. Of course, if I wasn't a mod author I'd probably have finished my schooling by now. :P

[BinakAlgo]

Hahaha, thanks, but I'm not good at it, I have to use things as STEP or even the /tesg/ page to learn how to get my Skyrim running.

 

But it is very interesting that. Even if I could apply to it, that nondisclosure agreement would prevent me to write about it.

 

I'm afraid that devs are about to get exploited in a 19th-century England scale.

[RGMage2]

I'm afraid that devs are about to get exploited in a 19th-century England scale.

If it turns out to be excessively one sided and exploitative then I think we can be reasonably sure that the non-disclosure agreement will be broken. In fact even if it's a good deal it will probably be broken - there will always be someone who is disgruntled or feels hard done by, or on the other side someone who wants to brag, and threats of legal action aren't always effective or believable.

[BinakAlgo]

 

I'm afraid that devs are about to get exploited in a 19th-century England scale.

If it turns out to be excessively one sided and exploitative then I think we can be reasonably sure that the non-disclosure agreement will be broken. In fact even if it's a good deal it will probably be broken - there will always be someone who is disgruntled or feels hard done by, or on the other side someone who wants to brag, and threats of legal action aren't always effective or believable.

 

 

The problem is that maybe they won't note it, or maybe people will accept it.

 

You see, right now, most modders are making $0 even if they would like to see some money for their work, because, well, we all have needs.

 

I've visited several patreon pages, and famous and well-established modders like Elianora and Chesko are making $400+ USD the month. I don't know if that's good or bad, but assuming that they are living in developed countries, that's several dollars below minimum wage and poverty line.

 

Other modders who work I like have patreon pages that would be funny if it wasn't a tragedy, $1, $5, $11 USD month, with files that have been endorsed 10,000+ times.

 

I have my hypothesis about how this whole thing will be going, but I've my feeling that modders will do all the risks, all the investment, 90% of the work and they'll have to share 25% of the profit with Bethesda.

[Reneer]

The problem is that maybe they won't note it, or maybe people will accept it.

 

You see, right now, most modders are making $0 even if they would like to see some money for their work, because, well, we all have needs.

 

I've visited several patreon pages, and famous and well-established modders like Elianora and Chesko are making $400+ USD the month. I don't know if that's good or bad, but assuming that they are living in developed countries, that's several dollars below minimum wage and poverty line.

 

Other modders who work I like have patreon pages that would be funny if it wasn't a tragedy, $1, $5, $11 USD month, with files that have been endorsed 10,000+ times.

 

I have my hypothesis about how this whole thing will be going, but I've my feeling that modders will do all the risks, all the investment, 90% of the work and they'll have to share 25% of the profit with Bethesda.

I'd be jumping at the bit to share only 25% of my profit with Bethesda.

 

But, based on everything we know (from the Creation Club website) the payments will likely be done while the mod is in development and then Bethesda will own the finished product to sell on the Creation Club itself. This on its face might seem like a horrible idea, but in fact it makes sense. Mod authors get paid to develop a product and Bethesda takes all the risk when selling the product. In this way mod authors will get a (roughly) preset amount of money per mod but won't have to deal with patches after the mod is being sold (since ownership will have transferred to Bethesda). And Bethesda may or may not break even on their "investment" (what they paid the mod author to produce the mod) if for whatever reason the mod doesn't sell well, but they will also stand to gain if the mod is wildly successful. And, of course, since the Creation Club is a selective program, mod authors within the program may gain more negotiating power with Bethesda if they have produced successful Creation Club mods in the past.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Reneer

[kthompsen]

 

 

I'm afraid that devs are about to get exploited in a 19th-century England scale.

If it turns out to be excessively one sided and exploitative then I think we can be reasonably sure that the non-disclosure agreement will be broken. In fact even if it's a good deal it will probably be broken - there will always be someone who is disgruntled or feels hard done by, or on the other side someone who wants to brag, and threats of legal action aren't always effective or believable.

 

 

The problem is that maybe they won't note it, or maybe people will accept it.

 

You see, right now, most modders are making $0 even if they would like to see some money for their work, because, well, we all have needs.

 

I've visited several patreon pages, and famous and well-established modders like Elianora and Chesko are making $400+ USD the month. I don't know if that's good or bad, but assuming that they are living in developed countries, that's several dollars below minimum wage and poverty line.

 

Other modders who work I like have patreon pages that would be funny if it wasn't a tragedy, $1, $5, $11 USD month, with files that have been endorsed 10,000+ times.

 

I have my hypothesis about how this whole thing will be going, but I've my feeling that modders will do all the risks, all the investment, 90% of the work and they'll have to share 25% of the profit with Bethesda.

 

 

I admire the open source world personally. I think there should be more projects that are free to be tinkered with and that invite whole teams of people to work on. And if there are forks and divergent editions of a mod, so be it. Chaos is sometimes a good thing. The people who win in the end are users.... which is what any of this should be about in the first place. Not modders, but all of us as gamers.. and our gaming experience.

 

 

edit: That said, I don't think paid modding needs to be taken away. That has it's rightful place too. I just think the above needs to happen to offer an alternative, to compete with it. I think some of these possible Creation Club things might have a lot of work and devotion put into them, and be worth paying for. But the above model is the best chance where "free" can still maintain a similar or even better level of quality. Without it, I think free mods will eventually be a mess in comparison. Where slowly all of the good mods made by lone individuals will be behind a pay wall.

Edited August 7, 2017 by kthompsen

[Reneer]

I admire the open source world personally. I think there should be more projects that are free to be tinkered with and that invite whole teams of people to work on. And if there are forks and divergent editions of a mod, so be it. May the best mod win. The people who win in the end are users.... which is what any of this should be about in the first place. Not modders, but all of us as gamers.. and our gaming experience.

 

edit: That said, I don't think paid modding needs to be taken away. I just think the above needs to happen to offer an alternative, to compete with it.

I don't mod for users. I mod because I enjoy the creative process, because I want to challenge myself to see if I can make something happen. Releasing (some) of the mods I create is a nice byproduct for users. If you want more mods to be released as open source, go out and create an open source mod. But please don't go telling people what modding "should" or "should not" be or who modding should be "for". Let them decide that for themselves.

[kthompsen]

 

I admire the open source world personally. I think there should be more projects that are free to be tinkered with and that invite whole teams of people to work on. And if there are forks and divergent editions of a mod, so be it. May the best mod win. The people who win in the end are users.... which is what any of this should be about in the first place. Not modders, but all of us as gamers.. and our gaming experience.

 

edit: That said, I don't think paid modding needs to be taken away. I just think the above needs to happen to offer an alternative, to compete with it.

I don't mod for users. I mod because I enjoy the creative process, because I want to challenge myself to see if I can make something happen. Releasing (some) of the mods I create is a nice byproduct for users. If you want more mods to be released as open source, go out and create an open source mod. But please don't go telling people what modding "should" or "should not" be or who modding should be "for". Let them decide that for themselves.

 

 

I'm just musing on different delivery models and how each has a different effect on the quality of products. If you take offense, I suggest to not take it so personally. Especially not an attack on you, if you keep things to yourself and don't care about users at all. Why are you interested in replying to me, if that's the case? I mean, paid modders care about customers (i.e. users) and community projects care about the very community they're working in (i.e. other users). In each case, it's about creating something to impress others.

 

I make little mods for my own use personally, so I partly understand just doing things in your own little world. I'm not much of a modder myself though. I'm a musician first and foremost, so I understand you even better from that angle. I play mostly for my own entertainment (and therapy).

[Reneer]

I'm just musing on different delivery models and how each has a different effect on the quality of products. If you take offense, I suggest to not take it so personally. Especially not an attack on you, if you keep things to yourself and don't care about users at all. Why are you interested in replying to me, if that's the case? I mean, paid modders care about customers (i.e. users) and community projects care about the very community they're working in (i.e. other users). In each case, it's about creating something to impress others.

 

I make little mods for my own use personally, so I partly understand just doing things in your own little world. I'm not much of a modder myself though. I'm a musician first and foremost, so I understand you even better from that angle. I play mostly for my own entertainment (and therapy).

I apologize if I came off harshly. The whole "modding should be done X way for Y reason" often strikes a nerve with me for a variety of personal reasons and I often make the error of replying when that nerve is still hurting. And I replied to you both out of that (unhelpful and wrong) anger as well as pushing back against the growing number of people in the community who use that particular style of argument ("modding has always been about X / modding should be done for Y reasons") to try and denigrate mod authors who don't follow their viewpoint. It's been used both in the distant past (the old Cathedral versus Parlor debates), the recent past (when paid modding was first introduced), and increasingly moreso as the Creation Club nears launch. In my anecdotal experience most of the people making this type of argument, in relation to paid modding, simply don't want to spend money on mods and use an appeal to tradition as an easy, if flawed on multiple levels, method of rhetoric.

 

And I never said that I don't care about people who use my mods - I said that I mod for myself first and foremost. The needs and wants of users are a secondary concern - if I was modding to simply "impress" people I wouldn't be making the mods that I do.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Reneer