Korodic Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 But if that's the case, shouldn't the devs at least give us the 3rd parties tools they using, i mean in writting) i know we as little kids that we are will find a way to fill the gaps in CK trust me WHERE THERES A WAY THERES A SOLUTIONhahaha I dont think of us as little kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnie Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 But if that's the case, shouldn't the devs at least give us the 3rd parties tools they using, i mean in writting) i know we as little kids that we are will find a way to fill the gaps in CK trust me WHERE THERES A WAY THERES A SOLUTION They can not give us tools they themselves are "RENTING" ( thats really what a use license is). The second they did, they would be standing in from of a judge getting slammed with license violation and copyright damages. You and quite a few others have the wrong idea about what they can and can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet4571 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sunnie he said IN writing. As in the name of the tool used. Nobody will sue you for giving them credit for creating the program used to make your game. And a judge would laugh the case out of court. OT:I will have to agree with the OP. The wiki is the worst one I have ever seen and if the subject is not the tutorial then good luck figuring out where all the parts to the puzzle is located on it. The scripting help there is fine if you actually know how to use the scripting language from the past games or have some experience, but for someone like myself with 0, None, Nada, never touched scripting before noobies like myself the examples make no sense whatsoever. I cannot make a simple quest where you pick up a note and the quest starts sending you to find a key in a dungeon, then once you have the key you go unlock a house and read a journal and the quest is completed. But i sure as s*** can make Bendu olo where killing him completes his quest. If anyone wants to look at the broken quest i will give you the URL to the mod. As for an editor it lacks a simple UI for creating the scripts from a simple menu system. Pick-up, steal, find, enter, kill, all those variables and more chosen from a list and matched with a list of what happens when you do it. Pick Variable A and B. A causes B to happen. hit the compile button and the editor creates the script for you. I used a game editor way back in 2000 that had that functionality. Items in the game such as manniguins, weapon racks, and bookshelves are ridiculous that you are required to put together rather than a simple checkbox ON/OFF setup. turn it on and it will work, turn it off and it wont. Gizmos... hmm yeah nice to have them but holy crap are they crappy. try to move an item and it jumps either embedding itself into what you are trying to get it to touch. Or if you are trying to do the opposite you will have a huge gap between them. And heaven forbid trying to rotate something by 3 degree's with the rotate tool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnie Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sunnie he said IN writing. As in the name of the tool used. Nobody will sue you for giving them credit for creating the program used to make your game. And a judge would laugh the case out of court. Ok, not to be stupid here, but what exactly does "in writing" mean in that statement? If he means "tell us exactly "what" tools they used and had to remove, then sure, I don't see an issue with that, but that's not the interpretation I had when I read that statement, and it still confuses me as to what the statement actually is trying to communicate. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlRocks Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Sunnie he said IN writing. As in the name of the tool used. Nobody will sue you for giving them credit for creating the program used to make your game. And a judge would laugh the case out of court. OT:I will have to agree with the OP. The wiki is the worst one I have ever seen and if the subject is not the tutorial then good luck figuring out where all the parts to the puzzle is located on it. The scripting help there is fine if you actually know how to use the scripting language from the past games or have some experience, but for someone like myself with 0, None, Nada, never touched scripting before noobies like myself the examples make no sense whatsoever. I cannot make a simple quest where you pick up a note and the quest starts sending you to find a key in a dungeon, then once you have the key you go unlock a house and read a journal and the quest is completed. But i sure as s*** can make Bendu olo where killing him completes his quest. If anyone wants to look at the broken quest i will give you the URL to the mod. As for an editor it lacks a simple UI for creating the scripts from a simple menu system. Pick-up, steal, find, enter, kill, all those variables and more chosen from a list and matched with a list of what happens when you do it. Pick Variable A and B. A causes B to happen. hit the compile button and the editor creates the script for you. I used a game editor way back in 2000 that had that functionality. Items in the game such as manniguins, weapon racks, and bookshelves are ridiculous that you are required to put together rather than a simple checkbox ON/OFF setup. turn it on and it will work, turn it off and it wont. Gizmos... hmm yeah nice to have them but holy crap are they crappy. try to move an item and it jumps either embedding itself into what you are trying to get it to touch. Or if you are trying to do the opposite you will have a huge gap between them. And heaven forbid trying to rotate something by 3 degree's with the rotate tool... The bad thing is, I had no experience when I went into Oblivion, but just by looking at the scripts already in game, I was able to do some basic stuff day one. I got help from looking at other mods or asking here as well, but I learned a lot on my own before I ever even touched the wiki for the CS. (Didn't know about it then actually.) So, I'm pretty experienced by now with Oblivion/F3/NV. Not amazing by any stretch, but not bad either. Once the CK came out though, I was lost. Today, I still am. So I can't imagine coming into it with no knowledge beforehand either. I've done the tutorials and such but they're lacking. It also seems to me that Papyrus is "reference a reference to modify a reference that references..." It's nothing but references. Stuff someone could do in Oblivion with very little effort and 1 script requires so much more backtracking and referencing now, and at least 2 or 3 scripts, it's barely worth it to me. I understand this can't be changed, but in my opinion, it's a big time waster and offers only half the reward previous games did. Papyrus maybe "more powerful," but I'll never know first hand, and unfortunately, I think a lot of other potential or returning modders won't either. Especially when the wiki lacks more in depth explanation and examples, but even when that is fixed, the language still suffers from what I've already mentioned. Edited February 29, 2012 by AxlRocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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