Economy mod

[salumander4]

I feel like a huge aspect of the game is just painfully underdeveloped. That aspect is the economy. A bowl of noodles costs more than a pre-war microscope. I am not experienced with anything to do with making mods, but it seems like the modding community for Fallout 4 isn't as lively or expansive as for Skyrim. Skyrim mods added so much to the game. However, the vast majority of mods for Fallout 4 only add to the settlement mode. A mode I personally detest. You will not find mods like Hunterborn, Fishing in Skyrim, Notice board radiant quests, Jobs of Skyrim. Essentially mods that add to the game besides combat. There aren't any mods in Fallout 4 that add an entirely new branch to the game. It's pretty disappointing to be honest. Anyways, complaints aside, I think an economy mod for Fallout 4 would go a long way. This mod would make prices more dynamic.

 

- Stock for food vendors should be expanded upon. Pre-war food should be expensive, post-war food should be very affordable. No more squirrel on a stick costing 14 caps. Meat should be expensive. Vegetables should be plentiful in the markets because of the vast number of farmers. Therefore, produce should be in high supply, and therefore cheap. Water; both irradiated and pure, needs to be more available in vendors stock. And like alcohol, there should be varying degrees of consumption 4/4 full, 3/4 full, 2/4 full, 1/4, Empty.

 

- Scrap needs a lot of attention and imagination. Put yourself into the world of Fallout. Scrap should be valuable depending on its rarity and application. Steel should be cheaper than copper because copper is absolutely necessary for electrical devices. Steel is plentiful, so it should be cheap. Unique scrap should be made in Fallout to add flavor to the world and make the scrap markets more dynamic. Make more valuable scrap items new to the game. Microscopes in the game should be more expensive. Makeshift batteries should be more expensive. The vanilla scrap items need repricing, but I think someone should make new scrap items that would vary in value. The point of this is to make scavenging more rewarding and interesting. Also, fur pelts should be valuable. Scrap should be a massive market in the Fallout universe and it is just disappointing that bethesda left it so bare bones. There is no economy built that makes sense.

 

-Medicine needs to be tremendously valuable. Doctors and their products need to be a luxury. There are mods that add new lore friendly chems or medicine that exist in our world like morphine, multivitamins, and acetaminophen, so prices should be raised based on the suspected supply of said drugs. Pre-war drugs should be valuable. Post-war herbal medicines should be expensive, but not as expensive as pre-war drugs, and also less effective. Doctor services should be expensive too. Chems that are more like illegal drugs like Jet should also maintain high value, but not as much as pre-war drugs because folks can still make them. Imagine the price being marketed to junkies; they still got to be able to afford their fix.

 

-Guns and weapons just need a general increase in prices. Pre-war guns need prices raised, energy weapons need a huge price boost. Only the very elite and rich should be able to have energy weapons. Pre-war weapons should be for well of individuals. Pipe weapons should be for the average Joe trying to protect their families. Ammo vendors need a big increase in ammo stock, particularly for automatic weapons, but as for prices. Prices for ammo need to be hiked up 2 or 3 times their typical value. Guns should be very valuable. There may need to be some changes to the gun distribution to make sense for the change of prices. Raiders should still have some guns because of the people they kill.

 

-Clothing needs dynamic pricing too based on quality.

 

-Alcohol should have multiple servings per bottle say like 4/4 is full, then 3/4 is a single drink, then so one till 0/4. Also, shots should be added to the game. The fact that people are doing mods like this is beyond me. Who typically orders a bottle of vodka at the bar?

 

-To add to the economy additions, if someone can find a way to implement some logistics into the game to make reoccurring expenses a real part of the game, that'd be great. Maybe figure out a way for the game to calculate objects not just by weight, but by volume. You can carry the weight of 10 fatmans, sure, but you can't carry 10 fatmans in a backpack. Things take up space: volume. This would be a start into adding logistics into the game. How are you going to get your loot back to base? How much can you carry in your bag? This would tie into the economy because you may have a valuable item, but you may need to make multiple trips to recover it. Or you may need a brahmin to carry it for you, or a robot to carry it, not because it's heavy, but because you don't have space in your inventory to carry it. Things like that. The brahmin or robot would have reoccurring expenses. Brahmins need food and water, Robots need new batteries or fuel of some kind. You may say that this would add too much work to the game, but I disagree. If the means to maintain your brahmin, robot, or even group of people you can hire to travel with you are properly implemented into the economy then it won't be. The game as it is right now, isn't build to facilitate such things. How would I feed my brahmin where there is no place that sells produce I need? How would I maintain my robot when there is no merchant and/or scrap item to buy or find to keep my robot working. There is no place to properly buy the proper provisions that I would need while traveling on my own or with a group. I think mercenaries or party of some kind should be able to be formed. This would cost money regularly, not just a one time fee. If things like I described above are implemented, then maintaining a robot, crew, or brahmin would not add annoyance to the game, but it would add satisfaction in achieving something. Wealth comes too cheaply, there is no gratification for making 1k caps. A sum which is apparently enough to start a business. The economy essentially needs major inflation. 1k caps should get you by a couple weeks of just eating and staying put in a town. Not an entire business.

 

 

-This kind of breaks away from the general economy theme. I kind of want animals to not look so sickly. If there is a way to make radstags not have two heads and/or at least not look like something out of The Thing movie the go figure. Same with Yao Gui, and any other mammal; make them look healthy. I know it kind of breaks some lore, but it'd make hunting animals a bit more believable in my opinion. Deathclaws, insects, and mirelurks are fine the way they are.

 

-If there is a way to add new plants that are specifically good for making chems then that'd be cool too. I loved Skyrim's flora being used for alchemy. A big opportunity was missed here for Fallout 4. They could have made so many mutated plants, but the chemistry and flora fell flat.

 

-----Here are some ideas for other mods that I have seen in Skyrim that I feel really added to the game. Mods that do not a Fallout 4 counterpart-----

 

-Mods that added new weapons and armor. I think there should be more variation in both post-war weapons and pre-war weapons. Different variations of leather, metal, and combat armor would go a long way.

 

-Fishing in Skrim was a mod that added...well, fishing. This would tie into the market and economy as Boston has a lot of contact with water, both in the ocean, and several rivers lakes and ponds. (I do not understand even slightly why fish weren't put into the game in the first place.)

 

-Various crafting mods. To open up ways to play outside of combat, crafting new items would go a long way.

 

-Notice board quests and jobs of Skyrim. Both of these mods add so much immersion to the game. Especially good for Fallout 4 because the game right now is so oriented around combat. This could take some of the focus on combat away, which I think is great.

 

-Hunterborn was a great addition and made role-playing as a hunter rewarding economically.

 

-Generally adding new items to the game. To supplement the economy, adding new items to the game like medicines, food, and scrap is a must.

 

 

 

[instyne49]

I like a lot of your ideas, after 5 complete play throughs, the game is very predictable, I can collect an enormous amount of power armor, then it sits in one spot and does nothing. A way to set up as a merchant and rotate these, plus other items like food crops would be cool. Some kind of master inventory where you can see how productive your merchants are would be very dynamic. Maybe some kind of addition to sim settlements where things rotate into and out of stock, actually make these lazy settlers support themselves.

[salumander4]

Yeah, I wrote down a lot of ideas, but plainly put: The game needs a dang economy lol. Sure, are caps but all you really buy are meds and ammo. It's such a shoot'em up game. Boston comes across as a post-apocalyptic world, but people living like the pilgrims did. A lot of emphasis on homesteads. Produce like corn, tatos, carrots, etc. could have been a major part of the economy. I think a major reason Fallout 4 doesn't feel realistic is because the world isn't built around any economy. Whether it's now or a post-apocalypse the thing that spurs people into action is making a buck, honest or otherwise. Skyrim did better at accomplishing this, but it still left plenty of room for improvement.

 

I kind of wish Bethesda would kind of get away from satiric characters and world building. I know the retro-futuristic vibe is the world of Fallout 4, that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about the world just being less forgiving, more grim, more desperate. I love Metro 2033/34's world building from the characters, to the environment. Very dark, people focused on survival. In Fallout 4 and 3 we have these just silly and unrealistic characters. Piper, the mayor, farmers out in the wasteland, raiders. A lot of these characters feel like caricatures of what they really should be. I mean, if they really invested in making the world feel more dangerous just by really injecting evil into raiders and super mutants, then something that small would go a long way. There is just nothing scary in the game. Going into a raider hideout feels like running through a shoot course, just speed running around popping idiots in the head.

 

You would agree with 5 play throughs, and myself with 277 playing Fallout 4 (with about 190 mods; heavily modded) I think you can see the amount of neglect that went into Fallout 4. I do not know why Bethesda left the game so bare bones. Everything from the settlement system, general world building, characters, quests, and survival aspects feel so underdeveloped; bare bones, and essentially neglected real attention and fleshing out. The game is pretty bad to be honest. If it weren't for the mods, then I would have probably stopped about 30 or 40 hours. And for a self-proclaimed open-world RPG game, those are some low hours. I speculate that Bethesda leaned very hard on the modding community on this game, and wanted to see what they would make the game. I think they considered while making the game that the modding community will flesh out the game for them. The result is a supposed RPG game that revolves entirely on gun play; a glorified shoo'em up. And a town builder game, which is a major meticulous time sponge.

 

And If you have played Skyrim, then you'd probably agree the mods for that game were a lot better and more diverse in what they changed. Adding many new weapons and armor, new features to the game entirely like fishing and sailing a boat, and drastically improved features already put into the game. In Fallout 4 the grand majority of mods by far are for the settlement mode. Adding new things to build. And for the mods that have nothing to do with the settlement mode, are mostly for combat, and below combat I'd say are weather effects, and texture changes or adding new clothes and armor. Fine mods, but not good as a majority of what's out there. Just pages and pages of mods for a single outfit or weapon, you'd think the game was played by fashion designers. This statement isn't to say modders themselves are bad, but the overall collection and variety of mods for Fallout 4 don't really improve the game at all; aesthetics only go so far, and leave me wanting something that actually makes the game good.

[lazloarcadia]

Check out Horizon. It might fit what you have in mind. It is a Survival / Immersion overhaul mod which fleshes out a lot of things like healing, settlements, economy, etc.

[adammcbane]

A lot of what you are saying here is actually fairly easy to implement before touching the level list which I'd leave for last. I have been touching up prices for my own play through. In Skyrim I use economy mods and like to play merchant/ bounty hunter type so I guess I feel where you are coming from. One of the things that bothers me is the cost of crafting items vs what you actually craft, manufacturing dlc is a let down for me because I feel it would be great for a vendor play through.

 

I think Bethesda actually did prices as they did for balance sake, players could just load up on caps buy best items get bored stop playing. Those of us who would enjoy the economy are not enough I guess. Also many players seem to just sell jet or water so I think an economy mod would have to drop water price imo to near 0 ( it seems easy to get in Fallout 4 anyway) and then get into what you suggest. I'd leave jet alone as it's a drug and good vs bad play through could decide on selling it or not. I'm thinking of touching on this idea but not yet committing to anything. You can touch prices for many mods by simply using FO4edit btw it's really find item you want to change price look for value line and edit it to your liking.

[cartman1975]

I totally agree, the economy system is inexistant.

 

But i doubt, that it is really possible to make it better. Of course it is easy to change some prices, but this will always have major impacts on other things. Rising the value for mircoskops for example.

 

If we apply the price to what we expect to be, what will happen if the player finds 10 of them in the first two hours? He would be able to buy anthing from Carla in the Drumlin Diner.

 

Also the whole scrapping/raw materials system is not plausible. I made some calculations for my warehouse mod (how much steel will a full pallet of steel beams cost?) to make it somehow immersive.

 

But i stopped early, as it is really impossible to get it all aligned: prices, weight, volume, availability, recipes.

[adammcbane]

If we can get a discussion on the matter going I feel this mod can be done, keep conflicts in mind and best to forget merchants looking richer as that would require scripts and I believe Sim Settlement already kind of does that in settlements anyway.

 

The thing is that I feel if a mod were to raise the price on microscopes and a player found 10 it would just be luck like in real life anyway. Also problem in my opinion with that is it will depend on the players play style. I'll explain. Big balancing and economy are not in my opinion always the same aside from I believe difficulty based economy mods exist and you can't please everyone, if a player does not use crafting it's very easy for anything to fill their number of caps, players who craft a lot for example can find that they never have enough caps.

 

I like to build and I estimate at one point I bought 250k or so in concrete and steel shipments to just wall off Sanctuary and get things started. That was with no economy mod so in other words I got it anyway and also means my caps needs as you can imagine could not be really easily broken by a mod outside it being a cheat mod.

 

I want to work on this mod but there are some big questions though as to best method. The game is very random at the moment in economy terms. A toaster should not have enough steel to help you 1/4 way to build a steel wall but fixing that could cause major conflicts with other mods. Atm it takes a lot more in parts to craft something than the price you get for selling it so manufacturing is kind of done, players who want to make money selling thing end up only being able to sell drugs or water both of which different people have different opinions on. I don't want to be a drug dealer in game and I'm iffy on selling water.

 

I'm considering raising prices on components but not on the junk they come from ( kind of like a car is worth more in parts then the actual car) , I also am considering raising the prices on a few craft able items like stimpacks and bullets to balance things out since bullets seem like the item bought the most and shipments.

 

I want to make an economy mod for a merchant/ bounty hunter play through instead of a difficulty mod but it can be both if done right, ive seen a few mods that just make things harder so I guess they already exist so no need to do the same as people can just use those.

Edited November 11, 2018 by adammcbane

[Deleted49413338User]

I would just install Horizon, add some mods and balance them to Horizons economy. The author has takien things like value and weight for every object into account. But, there are some I would change. If upping the value of something though, you generally want to reduce the chance of it appearing in a LL.

[adammcbane]

Skyrim has some great economy mods I'd love one of those, They are focused on nothing but economy fixing and balancing is up to players choices, but than again in Skyrim regions etc made more sense for varying prices Fallout 4 it's a bit different.

 

As for Horizon Problem is Horizon is not an economy mod it's a lot more and needs lots of patches from what I know. ( I tried it and stopped pretty fast may or may not go back) If I for one were to go to Horizon my whole load order would need to be built around it. I also don't believe reducing loot is needed lots of mods do that already anyway adding that just adds to patch demands, stuff like that depends on play style in my opinion, but I believe if prices are adjusted correctly it doesn't matter what the drop rate is especially since players who don't build will always have more caps for obvious reasons nothing can really be done about that, just like in real life the richest man can't spend fast enough, it's just life.

 

Ammo is prob one of the best places for balance .38 is a very common and mainly used in pipe weapons, so I'm thinking if anything I'd lower it's cost if balance is the needed thing while raising harder to find but more useful items. NPCs having low amount of ammo drops has silly side affects where it only hurts the player and if the NPC could run low on ammo they just charge you as you shoot them anyway so that also breaks things.