Copyright and FO4's sound/music assets

[Rabidazell]

Howdy,

 

I see a lot of copyright discussion on these forums, but one thing that doesn't seem covered at all is remixing or creating derivative sound work from a game for a mod to be used IN THE SAME GAME.

 

I had planned on making a quest mod for FO4 based around music and sound taken from FO4 and some public domain assets.

 

However I have no idea if the standard modders practice of using native assets for new stuff in mods actually applies to the music/sound. Because the discussion has emphatically been about porting foreign assets so far the fact that normally one would have to ask permission of the copyright holder to create remixes, samples and other derivative works.

 

This is particularly vexing as much of the radio tracks so familiar to us are all held in different copyright.

 

For that matter I have no idea if Inon Zur is cool with the same stuff happening for his work.

[AGreatWeight]

From my understanding of it, they only way you'd be able to redistribute those musical assets would be if you'd altered them substantially enough so that they could be considered transformative works & bore as little resemblance to the originals as possible.

Alternatively, if your mod doesn't actually redistribute those assets (instead, it only references them) you're fine.

[Rabbit1251]

It is my understanding that Bethesda has paid for a license to use these assets in their respective games. According to the licensing agreement that you authorized in order to play their games you are not permitted to port these assets to another game title. Even to another game title produced by Bethesda.

 

If this is something that you want to do for your own amusement no-one can say you cannot. However, you would not be able to post your mod on the Nexus family of boards as they do not wish to face a copyright lawsuit. That is the reason that it is discouraged.

 

 

The Rabbit

[AGreatWeight]

Rabbit 51 is correct. My previous post was based more on the premise of you altering the Fallout 4 ambient soundtrack by Inon Zur - but in a nutshell, you'd need permission from the copyright holder/s to redistribute any assets that use their work, whether this is the the licensed 1930's/1940's/1950's era tracks from the radio stations, or the original ambient score.

[Rabidazell]

It is my understanding that Bethesda has paid for a license to use these assets in their respective games. According to the licensing agreement that you authorized in order to play their games you are not permitted to port these assets to another game title. Even to another game title produced by Bethesda.

 

If this is something that you want to do for your own amusement no-one can say you cannot. However, you would not be able to post your mod on the Nexus family of boards as they do not wish to face a copyright lawsuit. That is the reason that it is discouraged.

 

 

The Rabbit

 

Which is answering an entirely separate question, mainly the one everyone always answers regarding porting over assets from other games.

 

See, I'm interested in derivative works based on the sound assets of FO4 for a FO4 mod.

 

So the circumstance is this: You would think the sound assets would be like any other asset in the game and fine to 'mod' (Create derivative works from) for the same game (Not porting assets), thinking purely from a modding perspective.

 

The difference is, licensing agreements may not cover this, but I have no idea. Certainly it would be breaching copyright outside of this modding context.

 

I hope I have made what is confusing me clearer.

[Acacophony]

Copywright law is a nightmare that is notoriously unfair to freely distributed fanworks. I'm currently planning my own radio mod and trying to navigate some of this. I think it's ok, because I've heard of other radio mods borrowing music from the base game (such as Magnolia's songs) for use in their station.

 

However, this might depend on how you do it. You are technically not allowed to package any of the base game's files into a mod, outside of what might be automatically included in your .esp from the creation kit. This is why mods like the Fallout Texture Optimization Project can't just post the optimized textures themselves, and instead have to make the end user follow a process to optimize their own files.

 

So I think it's like AGreatWeight said, if you remixed them and altered them enough to count as derivative works, you are more or less protected, but if you repackage the song basically unchanged, that might not be ok. If you want the songs basically unchanged, you might be able to reference the existing files within the game, and that way they are not repackaged. That would be fine.

 

Since this question pertains to Bethesda's licencing agreement, I would recommend going to their official forums, or contacting their customer support, to get the full and proper answer here.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Acacophony

[Rabidazell]

Copywright law is a nightmare that is notoriously unfair to freely distributed fanworks. I'm currently planning my own radio mod and trying to navigate some of this. I think it's ok, because I've heard of other radio mods borrowing music from the base game (such as Magnolia's songs) for use in their station.

 

However, this might depend on how you do it. You are technically not allowed to package any of the base game's files into a mod, outside of what might be automatically included in your .esp from the creation kit. This is why mods like the Fallout Texture Optimization Project can't just post the optimized textures themselves, and instead have to make the end user follow a process to optimize their own files.

 

So I think it's like AGreatWeight said, if you remixed them and altered them enough to count as derivative works, you are more or less protected, but if you repackage the song basically unchanged, that might not be ok. If you want the songs basically unchanged, you might be able to reference the existing files within the game, and that way they are not repackaged. That would be fine.

 

Since this question pertains to Bethesda's licencing agreement, I would recommend going to their official forums, or contacting their customer support, to get the full and proper answer here.

 

Fascinating, sounds like you understand the struggle. Thank you for addressing very specifically what I am asking.

 

Copyright law is really interesting as it pertains to music, in that a lot of it seems to be about actually preventing anyone publishing derivative works without providing total control to the Property owner of the original work.

 

So the idea that if I made something derivative from all this sound, that was very different from what the original was like I would be protected is not in strict keeping with what I have read on the matter.

 

But that doesn't mean it's untrue. What you and others have said here does help, in that it at least adds some detail to what is a pretty cloudy area. I will have to brave Beth's forums, I think.

 

That's going to be fun, because they will more than likely think I mean porting from one game to another as well.

 

For future reference for anyone that reads this, Mark Morgan's tracks from FO 1 and 2 (by extension New Vegas as well) are this great exception to the rule for Nexus, as they are from other games but also public domain. That's why there's a mod that adds his stuff to FO4.