What is the best faction?

[TheFirstEnD]

 

They aren't evil. As Director you're also not making them "good" - you're making them better. The Brotherhood of Steel are not evil either. They're much more of a neutral faction than anything else. Does the Institute engage in some questionable things? Yes. But they are not evil. Synths are not people. Period. You cannot enslave machines. Murder doesn't make them evil either - as murder is rampant in the Commonwealth with or without the Institute. It's nothing unique, or worse, with their faction. If anything, they interfere with the people of the Commonwealth exponentially less than any other faction. You also cannot become Elder ever in Fallout 4 - so it was a waste to mention that.

 

 

You are kidding right ?

The Institut has deliberately destroyed the Provisional Government and one of the last chance of the Commowealth.

With a Government the Commonwealth would have been more secure and more rebuilded.

Reconstruction means work for all -- that means a chance for people to live in dignity -- that means less raiders, gunners etc... -- that means a new hope for all

 

Consequently, each time someone is killed or a settlement destroyed by raiders, gunners, synths or ghouls, the Institut has a responsability.

The Institut implanted the Supermutant in the Commonweath so each time someone is killed/eaten or a settlement destroyed by Supermutants, the Institut has a responsability.

They kidnap, kill and replace people with synth with only one objectif... kidnapp and kill more people.

They are evil, they are guilty and they caused so much death that the only good sentence for them is the extermination.

 

 

 

 

So one thing is a childish fantasy and not being able to turn the Minutemen into your own personal army is not a fantasy but a game mechanic issue?

 

The Minutemen ultimately are just a bunch of farmers trying to divide their time between growing crops/tending livestock/harvest and being a minuteman. Minutemen meaning, helping your neighbour/closest settlement on a minutes notice, note risking their lives for some General halfway across the Commonwealth fighting some Ghouls/Muties/Raiders/Gunners who are not a threat to you for the time being. You get the closest farmer near to you helping you if you call out for help, not some topnotch highly trained special forces unit doing a halo drop on your position or a mercenary unit like Reilly's Rangers.

 

 

Nope they are not simply a bunch of farmers and yes they will risk their lives, not for the General, but for the Minutemen cause (In the game there are no faction that risk their lives for you and no one able to send "some topnotch highly trained special forces unit doing a halo drop on your position").

Few facts :

- In vanilla game there are Minutemen who patrol between settlements

- There are also some random encounters involving the Minutemen vs Raiders/ SuperMutants/ Gunners/ Ghouls or Synths

- If you finish the Main Quest, you will see Minutemen in all checkpoints and around valuable ressources like power armors or vertibirds

- During some random dialogues between Preston and settlers, he say : "Thanks. It's good to know. Remember to support your local Minutemen.". This suggests that each settlement is supposed to have a kind of Minutemen office or at least some fulltime Minutemen.

 

 

If the minutemen spend to much time training they cannot tend to the crops, that means the harvest fails or yields a whole lot less, that means food shortage which leads to more violence, famine and ultimately death. Farming is 24/7 hard work for months on end during high season, not simply plow, seed, water, forget and harvest in between when you happen to have time of from military training. They only have a few weeks each year to train as a unit between harvest, wintertime and prepping the fields for the next cycle of harvest. You can only have your Fantasy Minutemen army if there is food in abundance and little to no risk of one failing harvest leading to shortage. As it is the Commonwealth is hardly getting by enough to have something of a standing professional army, so untill that time of abundance you get what you pay for when you call in help from the minutemen.

 

They simply do not have time to train as much as the gunners do, who are really nothing more then just a bunch of better dressed raiders with some fancy titles and hideouts anyway.

 

 

Ronnie clearly say : "I'll get these kids whipped into shape, don't worry.", so yes they receive a training at least the fulltime Minutemen.

When you ask for help, except if you are close, they will not respond simply because they will not see you. The flaregun isn't visible througth all the Commonwealth. But when the Castle is underattack and the radio call for help, Minutemen reinforcement come.

[Gilibran]

You are wrong, they are nowhere near something remotely resembling an army, never have been, never will, and their training is no more then basic, and that is what Ronny means imho. Offcourse in FO4 it's not the historical minutemen but in essence the idea is exactly the same, poorly trained militia with some individual exceptions offcourse who will function as officers. They are and remain common men and woman who are ready to be mobilized when needed, drawn from their daily jobs on a minutes notice. There are no true fulltime minutemen.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

[TheMightyArchaon]

 

(In the game there are no faction that risk their lives for you and no one able to send "some topnotch highly trained special forces unit doing a halo drop on your position").

 

Well actually the brotherhood has flown in a vertibird more times than I can remember, and they always drop knights from the sky to assist :D

[TheFirstEnD]

You are wrong, they are nowhere near something remotely resembling an army, never have been, never will, and their training is no more then basic, and that is what Ronny means imho. Offcourse in FO4 it's not the historical minutemen but in essence the idea is exactly the same, poorly trained militia with some individual exceptions offcourse who will function as officers. They are and remain common men and woman who are ready to be mobilized when needed, drawn from their daily jobs on a minutes notice. There are no true fulltime minutemen.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

 

- What do you mean by basic training ? Everyone in the Commonwealth know how to use a weapon, there are more weapons than foods in the game.

 

- There are no "true fulltime" or "false full time", there are full time or not fulltime.

Preston, Ronnie, the radio host, the 2-5 Minutemen who guard the Castle 24/24 and all the Minutemen who guard the checkpoints 24/24 all over the Commonwealth after you beat the main quest are fulltime Minutemen.

 

- I'm talking about the game, give you fact based on ingame content but you, you are talking about the real historical Minutemen who have nothing to see with the Minutemen ingame.

The real Minutemen did not have a castle full of high-tech weapons, huge cannons capable of destroying anything pratically anywhere in the commonwealth and a radio that allow them to communicate with all the Commonwealth.

 

So if for you the fallout Minutemen are the same thing as the real historical Minutemen and that the contents of the game do not matter, forget everything I said.

Edited September 26, 2017 by TheFirstEnD

[Gilibran]

 

 

So if for you the fallout Minutemen are the same thing as the real historical Minutemen and that the contents of the game do not matter, forget everything I said.

 

 

That's what i said:

 

"Offcourse in FO4 it's not the historical minutemen but in essence the idea is exactly the same"

 

 

Just because Preston and Ronny are always there and there is always "some" minutemen on the radio does not mean it's always the same person and a fulltime Miinutemen. They might be a bit more organized in FO4, have a castle and modern communications.

 

The FO4 minutemen are based on the historical Minutemen that is a fact and the Minutemen in FO4 are organized like the original minutemen. A militia + if you like but still just farmers, farmhands, traders, caravan guards, shopowners who come when called upon with no more then a handfull of trained officers to lead them, and afterwards go back to their everyday business, that's what a Militia is and that's what the Minutemen in FO4 are. Whatever Ronny is doing to whip them into shape is no more then some basic training before those men and woman return to their everyday business untill they are called upon.

 

Those patrols mean nothing they could simply be minutemen on rotation, serving for a few weeks each year at most.

 

And just because they have a gun, does not mean they can use it, owning a gun is nothing close to basic training. It takes hours and hours of training and thousands of rounds to be any good with a gun. During world war 2 it is estimated that it took between 5000 to 50.000 buliits for every combat casualty by trained soldiers. Those numbers have not really gone down. So it's prety safe to assume that some minutemen commonwealther with a gun (beside the fact it's mostly some crude, inacuratly, slapped together pipe riffle), even if he/she grew up with it in a violent environment, is pretty useless. And that they are mostly useless is perfectly reflected in game.

 

But, we simply do not know how the FO4 minutemen are really organized but there is enough evidence ingame that they are very close to the original minutemen.

[TheFirstEnD]

@Gilibran, yep it's exactly what I saying : you hanging your whole argumentation on the real historical Minutemen and you close your eyes deliberately on all ingame facts.

And if you simply don't know how the FO4 Minutemen are, personnally I think that all they do INGAME give you a good idea on how they are and what they can do.

 

Now back on topic

The Minutemen becoming stronger than Gunners... childish fanfiction ? NO. So it's a game mechanic issue ? YES

- Number. More settlements = more Minutemen

- Advantage. Cannons for air strikes and Radio for more strategies and coordination.

- Equipements. If as the General you give all your Minuteman settlers better weapons, armors and power armors, the faction is supposed to become better armed (It's not the case because game mechanic issue)

- Trainning. If the Minutemen receive a trainning same basic, the factionis supposed become more efficient (It's not the case here because game mechanic issue)

- Experience. With trainning and better equipement, chances to come back at home alive after battles is significantly higher and like a great warrior say ^^ "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors". (It's not the case here because game mechanic issue).

 

What is the best faction then ?

 

IMHO, in term of gameplay I will say... BoS and Minutemen because there are the only one that can help you on the battlefield.

In term of RP, the Minutemen have the weakest questline.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TheFirstEnD

[sinlessorrow]

 

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So if for you the fallout Minutemen are the same thing as the real historical Minutemen and that the contents of the game do not matter, forget everything I said.

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 That's what i said:

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"Offcourse in FO4 it's not the historical minutemen but in essence the idea is exactly the same"

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Just because Preston and Ronny are always there and there is always "some" minutemen on the radio does not mean it's always the same person and a fulltime Miinutemen. They might be a bit more organized in FO4, have a castle and modern communications.

Â

The FO4 minutemen are based on the historical Minutemen that is a fact and the Minutemen in FO4 are organized like the original minutemen. A militia + if you like but still just farmers, farmhands, traders, caravan guards, shopowners who come when called upon with no more then a handfull of trained officers to lead them, and afterwards go back to their everyday business, that's what a Militia is and that's what the Minutemen in FO4 are. Whatever Ronny is doing to whip them into shape is no more then some basic training before those men and woman return to their everyday business untill they are called upon.

Â

Those patrols mean nothing they could simply be minutemen on rotation, serving for a few weeks each year at most.

Â

And just because they have a gun, does not mean they can use it, owning a gun is nothing close to basic training. It takes hours and hours of training and thousands of rounds to be any good with a gun. During world war 2 it is estimated that it took between 5000 to 50.000 buliits for every combat casualty by trained soldiers. Those numbers have not really gone down. So it's prety safe to assume that some minutemen commonwealther with a gun (beside the fact it's mostly some crude, inacuratly, slapped together pipe riffle), even if he/she grew up with it in a violent environment, is pretty useless. And that they are mostly useless is perfectly reflected in game.

Â

But, we simply do not know how the FO4 minutemen are really organized but there is enough evidence ingame that they are very close to the original minutemen.

Just a heads up, you can't take those round counts to heart.

 

I'm going to keep this laymen.

Our tactics are designed so one group of soldiers pin down the enemy by firing a bunch at them.

 

While another group maneuvers to the enemies position to kill them.

 

That's why it's estimated one kill requires 5,000-50,000 rounds.

 

It's just how we fight. It's also the most effective way to not lose soldiers ourselves while killing the enemy.

[Gilibran]

 

 

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So if for you the fallout Minutemen are the same thing as the real historical Minutemen and that the contents of the game do not matter, forget everything I said.

Â

Â

 That's what i said:

Â

"Offcourse in FO4 it's not the historical minutemen but in essence the idea is exactly the same"

Â

Â

Just because Preston and Ronny are always there and there is always "some" minutemen on the radio does not mean it's always the same person and a fulltime Miinutemen. They might be a bit more organized in FO4, have a castle and modern communications.

Â

The FO4 minutemen are based on the historical Minutemen that is a fact and the Minutemen in FO4 are organized like the original minutemen. A militia + if you like but still just farmers, farmhands, traders, caravan guards, shopowners who come when called upon with no more then a handfull of trained officers to lead them, and afterwards go back to their everyday business, that's what a Militia is and that's what the Minutemen in FO4 are. Whatever Ronny is doing to whip them into shape is no more then some basic training before those men and woman return to their everyday business untill they are called upon.

Â

Those patrols mean nothing they could simply be minutemen on rotation, serving for a few weeks each year at most.

Â

And just because they have a gun, does not mean they can use it, owning a gun is nothing close to basic training. It takes hours and hours of training and thousands of rounds to be any good with a gun. During world war 2 it is estimated that it took between 5000 to 50.000 buliits for every combat casualty by trained soldiers. Those numbers have not really gone down. So it's prety safe to assume that some minutemen commonwealther with a gun (beside the fact it's mostly some crude, inacuratly, slapped together pipe riffle), even if he/she grew up with it in a violent environment, is pretty useless. And that they are mostly useless is perfectly reflected in game.

Â

But, we simply do not know how the FO4 minutemen are really organized but there is enough evidence ingame that they are very close to the original minutemen.

Just a heads up, you can't take those round counts to heart.

 

I'm going to keep this laymen.

Our tactics are designed so one group of soldiers pin down the enemy by firing a bunch at them.

 

While another group maneuvers to the enemies position to kill them.

 

That's why it's estimated one kill requires 5,000-50,000 rounds.

 

It's just how we fight. It's also the most effective way to not lose soldiers ourselves while killing the enemy.

 

 

Thanks for the info, I understand, the point was, those numbers are from tactics used by well trained soldiers, i doubt anyone in the Commonwealth, besides the BoS and a handfull outsiders have the knowledge, training and skills for those kindoff coordinated tactical actions.

[Gilibran]

@Gilibran, yep it's exactly what I saying : you hanging your whole argumentation on the real historical Minutemen and you close your eyes deliberately on all ingame facts.

And if you simply don't know how the FO4 Minutemen are, personnally I think that all they do INGAME give you a good idea on how they are and what they can do.

 

Now back on topic

The Minutemen becoming stronger than Gunners... childish fanfiction ? NO. So it's a game mechanic issue ? YES

- Number. More settlements = more Minutemen

- Advantage. Cannons for air strikes and Radio for more strategies and coordination.

- Equipements. If as the General you give all your Minuteman settlers better weapons, armors and power armors, the faction is supposed to become better armed (It's not the case because game mechanic issue)

- Trainning. If the Minutemen receive a trainning same basic, the factionis supposed become more efficient (It's not the case here because game mechanic issue)

- Experience. With trainning and better equipement, chances to come back at home alive after battles is significantly higher and like a great warrior say ^^ "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors". (It's not the case here because game mechanic issue).

 

What is the best faction then ?

 

IMHO, in term of gameplay I will say... BoS and Minutemen because there are the only one that can help you on the battlefield.

In term of RP, the Minutemen have the weakest questline.

 

Let's agree to disagree ;-) But if you want to, look up the definition of a Militia

[iXenite]

 

 

You are kidding right ?

The Institut has deliberately destroyed the Provisional Government and one of the last chance of the Commowealth.

With a Government the Commonwealth would have been more secure and more rebuilded.

Reconstruction means work for all -- that means a chance for people to live in dignity -- that means less raiders, gunners etc... -- that means a new hope for all

 

Consequently, each time someone is killed or a settlement destroyed by raiders, gunners, synths or ghouls, the Institut has a responsability.

The Institut implanted the Supermutant in the Commonweath so each time someone is killed/eaten or a settlement destroyed by Supermutants, the Institut has a responsability.

They kidnap, kill and replace people with synth with only one objectif... kidnapp and kill more people.

They are evil, they are guilty and they caused so much death that the only good sentence for them is the extermination.

 

 

 

 

1. The Provisional Government would have "saved" the Commonwealth? Yeah right. The Commonwealths largest militia, the Minutemen, fell apart due to corruption and naivete. Do you think the Provisional Government would have been any different? But lets just say they did set up a government. Are a bunch of peasants going to figure out how to boost crop yields in a radiated wasteland? No - they clearly aren't. Proof? It's been 200 years - and they still haven't figured it out. The people of the Commonwealth, and all of the Wasteland for that matter, have had over 200 years to set up a government. They haven't. They won't.

 

Only the NCR were ambitous and smart enough to get something done. And before you say something ridiculous like "they didn't have the Institute breathing down your neck", the NCR has had plenty of large obstacles in their path over the years. They kept trying - and in the end they made it. The people of the Commonwealth lack the ambition and drive for success. After the Minutemen fell apart they all gave up. After the Provisional Government failed they all gave up. They're hopeless on their own. The Institute may not be the savior the Commonwealth "deserves", but they are the only hope the Commonwealth actually has at rebuilding the world.

 

2. The Institute has the technology to fix the Commonwealth. The technology that would make life worth living. To destroy the Institute for something as petty as revenge, or so called "justice", is just narrow minded and foolish. You have to look at the big picture. There is a lot more here then just peasants being killed by other peasants. This is about rebuilding society, about fixing the Earth. Do you think a bunch of illiterate Scavvers are going to be doing that? Because that is what the majority of the Commonwealth is filled with. Illiterate Scavvers. People that would rather cut your throat so they can take whatever is your pockets then hear what you have to say.

 

They lack the intellect and drive to fix the Commonwealth. To put the fate of the Commonwealth in the hands of people like that - is no different then condemning the Commonwealth to death. I believe that the Commonwealth deserves a brighter future than just sitting in a wood shack eating 200+ year old pork n' beans. Which is the future the Commonwealth has under the Minutemen. 200 years of this show that I'm right. They won't just suddenly learn how to make proper homes, or how to make the plants more capable of growing in the ruined soil, or learn that eating 200+ year old food is probably bad for your bowels.