What is the best faction?

[Transient3292]

 

- is into slavery

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You cannot enslave machines. Your PC isn't a slave is it? No - it's not. I stopped reading your post after that.

a pc doesn't have feel pain or hapiness, make decisions, or get worried or scared. one thing bethesda did right, even though so many ignore the details, is that they fleshed out the question of synths humanity. if you hang out in the institute and overhear some conversations, there's a synth talking to another about being worried for there friend who had dissapeared. after making some pretty human sounding concerns, the other tells her to "stop talking like that before they shut you down!"

 

Another instance is the synth eve that is put into one of the scientists family to replace a dead wife and mother. if you talk to her , she goes on to explain that she knows shes just a synth, but can't help but hope that the family grows to care about her, and to eventually make them happy.

 

the point of this is that yes they are created by humans, but who is to say that there feelings aren't real. obviously the feelings cant be controlled by an outside source, or the institute would shut that down in order to stop them from escaping or starting a rebellion.

 

this overall question could get to deep for forum posts, but who is to say what the actual nature of our own consciousness. at some level our brains could be acting on what we consider a "program" or software.

 

overall, I think bethesda wanted these details to be noticed, and questions to be asked. in America back in the old days, European Americans surely thought of other races as inferior, not capable of having complex thoughts and feelinsg. for all we know in our real world, someday in the far future, AI beings could be looked at as sentient lifeforms that are equal or even superiorto humans, vastly different, but no less capable of the thibgs that make us living beings.

[iXenite]

 

a pc doesn't have feel pain or hapiness, make decisions, or get worried or scared. one thing bethesda did right, even though so many ignore the details, is that they fleshed out the question of synths humanity. if you hang out in the institute and overhear some conversations, there's a synth talking to another about being worried for there friend who had dissapeared. after making some pretty human sounding concerns, the other tells her to "stop talking like that before they shut you down!"

 

Another instance is the synth eve that is put into one of the scientists family to replace a dead wife and mother. if you talk to her , she goes on to explain that she knows shes just a synth, but can't help but hope that the family grows to care about her, and to eventually make them happy.

 

the point of this is that yes they are created by humans, but who is to say that there feelings aren't real. obviously the feelings cant be controlled by an outside source, or the institute would shut that down in order to stop them from escaping or starting a rebellion.

 

this overall question could get to deep for forum posts, but who is to say what the actual nature of our own consciousness. at some level our brains could be acting on what we consider a "program" or software.

 

overall, I think bethesda wanted these details to be noticed, and questions to be asked. in America back in the old days, European Americans surely thought of other races as inferior, not capable of having complex thoughts and feelinsg. for all we know in our real world, someday in the far future, AI beings could be looked at as sentient lifeforms that are equal or even superiorto humans, vastly different, but no less capable of the thibgs that make us living beings.

 

 

I believe that Synths are advanced machines that have Virtual Intelligence. Much like Curie, they have been programmed to mimic human behavior to make everyone in the Institute more comfortable. You pair that with an advanced machine learning - and it becomes more understandable how these machines could even convince themselves (or have others convince them) that they're human like us. They can be very similar, but in the end they can never be "alive" like us. Either way, I don't view them as slaves. Not only because they are not living things - but in fact machines. But because I don't see the Synths being enslaved.

 

It's obvious from what Father and others say that the Synths destiny is far greater than doing your basic tasks within the walls of the Institute. It's implied that the Institute intends to have the Synths inherit the Earth once humanity is completely gone. That they will replace us. Basically serving as surrogates for people that were once alive. The flaw in this logic, assuming that this is what the Institutes actual intentions are, is that a copy of a person is not the same person. There will always be something machine like and fake about a Synth copy over the original. In other words, they wouldn't be a continuation of the human species - an evolution so to speak. They'd be a new thing altogether. They'd simply replace what came before (their creators).

 

Also, when it comes to real life chattel slavery. Many cultures viewed the people they were enslaving to be sub-human. Not that they were not human. A subtle difference. I don't think all cultures viewed that way though. I'm fairly certain many thought that it was their destiny to be enslaved by whatever people were enslaving them. Or that if they were not meant to be slaves, then God(s) would prevent such a thing from happening. Slavery has occurred in pretty much every culture on Earth at some point in history. Not just Europe. The reasons vary from time period to time period, as well as culture.

 

In addition to that, the Synths that "escape" from the Institute do not do it alone. Forces within the Institute convince these Synths that they are human and that they're being suppressed, and then they help them leave the Institute. Afterwards they stumble on the Railroad. As far as I'm aware - there isn't a single Synth that has made the decision to leave on their own. As in sitting alone one day and deciding to leave. They don't seem to be very spontaneous with their thinking.

[drach]

while I agree on your view of synths - sophisticated machines nothing more, you got slavery bit wrong - it's european culture (mainly anglo-saxon) and by extent modern american culture that had this slave is less then human thing going on, historically ancient civilizations had quite different view on the subject (except for jews who perceive non jews as non-human beings, but that's separate matter) for example Greek or Egyptian slaves had more rights that today's citizen of UE and were slaves by completely different definition namely had no right to vote and had to serve agreed period of time (yes ancient slavery had been done on contract basis, similar to today's corporate job agreements btw) but to matter at hand

you're also (in my opinion this time, no facts other then it's a game we can interpret it as we like) completely misguided on you view of the institute, in no way their agenda and actions could be tolerated by self-aware sentient being

[iXenite]

while I agree on your view of synths - sophisticated machines nothing more, you got slavery bit wrong - it's european culture (mainly anglo-saxon) and by extent modern american culture that had this slave is less then human thing going on, historically ancient civilizations had quite different view on the subject (except for jews who perceive non jews as non-human beings, but that's separate matter) for example Greek or Egyptian slaves had more rights that today's citizen of UE and were slaves by completely different definition namely had no right to vote and had to serve agreed period of time (yes ancient slavery had been done on contract basis, similar to today's corporate job agreements btw) but to matter at hand

you're also (in my opinion this time, no facts other then it's a game we can interpret it as we like) completely misguided on you view of the institute, in no way their agenda and actions could be tolerated by self-aware sentient being

 

Was this comment meant for me? Because I did make a very clear point in my last post that I recognize the various cultural and historical views on what slaves were and their place in society. Your last statement also doesn't make any sense to me.

[Transient3292]

 

 I don't fully disagree with you, but have you played through with the railroad? there are synths that choose to leave on there own, which you find out about theough z 14. my pointention being that they don't have to be convinced to leave , most just go along with there current way of life for fear of being shut down

a pc doesn't have feel pain or hapiness, make decisions, or get worried or scared. one thing bethesda did right, even though so many ignore the details, is that they fleshed out the question of synths humanity. if you hang out in the institute and overhear some conversations, there's a synth talking to another about being worried for there friend who had dissapeared. after making some pretty human sounding concerns, the other tells her to "stop talking like that before they shut you down!"

 

Another instance is the synth eve that is put into one of the scientists family to replace a dead wife and mother. if you talk to her , she goes on to explain that she knows shes just a synth, but can't help but hope that the family grows to care about her, and to eventually make them happy.

 

the point of this is that yes they are created by humans, but who is to say that there feelings aren't real. obviously the feelings cant be controlled by an outside source, or the institute would shut that down in order to stop them from escaping or starting a rebellion.

 

this overall question could get to deep for forum posts, but who is to say what the actual nature of our own consciousness. at some level our brains could be acting on what we consider a "program" or software.

 

overall, I think bethesda wanted these details to be noticed, and questions to be asked. in America back in the old days, European Americans surely thought of other races as inferior, not capable of having complex thoughts and feelinsg. for all we know in our real world, someday in the far future, AI beings could be looked at as sentient lifeforms that are equal or even superiorto humans, vastly different, but no less capable of the thibgs that make us living beings.

Â

Â

I believe that Synths are advanced machines that have Virtual Intelligence. Much like Curie, they have been programmed to mimic human behavior to make everyone in the Institute more comfortable. You pair that with an advanced machine learning - and it becomes more understandable how these machines could even convince themselves (or have others convince them) that they're human like us. They can be very similar, but in the end they can never be "alive" like us. Either way, I don't view them as slaves. Not only because they are not living things - but in fact machines. But because I don't see the Synths being enslaved.

Â

It's obvious from what Father and others say that the Synths destiny is far greater than doing your basic tasks within the walls of the Institute. It's implied that the Institute intends to have the Synths inherit the Earth once humanity is completely gone. That they will replace us. Basically serving as surrogates for people that were once alive. The flaw in this logic, assuming that this is what the Institutes actual intentions are, is that a copy of a person is not the same person. There will always be something machine like and fake about a Synth copy over the original. In other words, they wouldn't be a continuation of the human species - an evolution so to speak. They'd be a new thing altogether. They'd simply replace what came before (their creators).

Â

Also, when it comes to real life chattel slavery. Many cultures viewed the people they were enslaving to be sub-human. Not that they were not human. A subtle difference. I don't think all cultures viewed that way though. I'm fairly certain many thought that it was their destiny to be enslaved by whatever people were enslaving them. Or that if they were not meant to be slaves, then God(s) would prevent such a thing from happening. Slavery has occurred in pretty much every culture on Earth at some point in history. Not just Europe. The reasons vary from time period to time period, as well as culture.

Â

In addition to that, the Synths that "escape" from the Institute do not do it alone. Forces within the Institute convince these Synths that they are human and that they're being suppressed, and then they help them leave the Institute. Afterwards they stumble on the Railroad. As far as I'm aware - there isn't a single Synth that has made the decision to leave on their own. As in sitting alone one day and deciding to leave. They don't seem to be very spontaneous with their thinking.Â

[LucidLady]

Anything but the BOS, basically.

They're a bunch of asswads. Super annoying. Also, I really dislike Power Armor.

I wish any of the main game factions catered to Melee at all. But I guess that's not important.

 

Minutemen is always the best choice.

But if i had to choose between Institute and Railroad, I guess I choose... Institute.

RR has some real interesting quests, don't get me wrong. And alot of the Institute's decisions seem unnecessarily cruel.

But the Institute has more fun toys, what can I say? The relay grenades are fun. And on survival, the teleport to the center of the map is super nice. The RR is just doomed to failure, is all I can see. Their cause is crazy. And they don't care about real, actual people.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

Synths are human, or close enough to it. They're made out of human DNA, they look like humans, they act like humans, they experience human thoughts and emotions. Yes, they can be programmed, but I got news: Humans can also be programmed. To a terrifying degree. Psychological research on authority and conformity paint a pretty depressing picture of how much self-determination most people actually have. Furthermore we already programmed by our genes to a far greater extent than most of us realize, and that genetic programming has caused a lot more destruction than anything a synth has ever done. Basically, human beings are s#*! so I don't know where we get off acting like we're so much better than Synths.

 

If I have to choose based on my personal and ethical preferences, I'd choose the Railroad. A brave bunch of men and women willing to risk their lives because they understand that people who are a bit different are still people, and that people should have rights. Also I appreciate that they mostly only kill people out of necessity, and don't go out of their way to end or ruin lives to fulfill some sick notions of a world order.

If I had to choose based on pragmatism, I'd go Institute. Those f*#@ers have science. They have the power to seriously improve the future of mankind. So they have some ethics troubles. Well, that is really shitty and all, but don't forget that by the time the Institute questline is over, you are the new leader of the Institute, and you have the remainder of your life to spend rewriting the rules and refocusing the Institute's efforts.