255 plugin limit: Questions about merging mods

[Minakie]

I have a *serious* mod addiction. It started when I played the entire The Sims series (from Sims 1 to Sims 4), moved on to Stardew Valley and now to Skyrim and The Witcher. And when I say 'serious', I mean I am way over the 255 plugin limit. I only have 288 mods but, due to compatibility patches and extra files some mods create when you chose certain settings, I have exactly 333 mods. The time to start merging is way overdue, but I don't want to screw up everything, so I need you guys help on this one.

 

The tools I'm using are SSEEdit 3.2 and NMM.

 

When merging plugins, just follow common sense and some basic rules:

1. Only merge plugins, that fall into the same category: Make a merge with your followers (OFC only "simple" ones without scripts, questchains etc. - don't merge Inigo!), another one with the armours and weapons you always would like to have in your game and so on...

2. Don't merge anything, that's needed by another mod outside of the merge. "Mergeplugins" normally will tell you though, if you're about to do this.

3. Don't merge anything containing scripts.

4. Don't merge anything with an esm or bsa file. You can merge mods with bsas, if you unpack them, though.

5. Don't put something in a merge, that you might want to change at some point (e.g. lighting and weather mods) to get a fresh look on a new playthrough.

6. If you're not absolutely sure about a plugin, don't merge it.

 

For further information, an excellent tutorial can be found here:

 

For the cart glitch, try this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65538/?

 

"the item, that will allow scripts" is called SKSE. Just follow the development thread here: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5206865-wipz-skyrim-script-extender-skse64/

In short: Beta possibly "mid March". Don't expect the same functionality as in "oldrim" right from the start. Things will take time.

 

 

Here are some questions to help me understand (they may contain scripts or be from different categories, they're just examples) what I can or can't merge:

 

1 - How do I know if a plugin contains scripts or not?

 

2 - If, after installing a mod, I end up with extra plugin files from the mod's configurations (eg: Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp, Improved Eyes Skyrim - Vamp.esp, Improved Eyes Skyrim - Serana.esp), is it safe to merge all the mods with the original one, or merge only the extra ones (Improved Eyes Skyrim - Vamp.esp, Improved Eyes Skyrim - Serana.esp) and leave the main one (Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp) untouched?

 

3 - If someone makes a patch to make two mods compatible, is it safe to merge the patch with any of the mods? Or would all the files need to be merged into 1? Or should all 3 files simply be left untouched?

 

4 - If I merge for eg. 2 armors and want to add another one to the merge, should I start a new game, or is it okay to keep playing with the new merged file with all 3 armors, as long as it has the same name as the previous one?

 

5 - Regarding merging mods from different categories, I wouldn't be able to merge Portable Craftable Safe Storage (Items and Objects - Player), Portable Safe (Crafting), Craftable Crafting, Simple Campfire Stuff, Tentapalooza (Immersion)? As far as I can tell, they're all just items. But I would not be able to make a merged Camping Stuff file because they're from 3 different categories?

Same for Smoking Torches and Candles (Visuals and Graphics) and Torches Cast Shadows (Immersion), because they're from different categories, I can't merge them even though they both make changes to torches?

 

6 - Should Wyre Bash be used before or after merging the mods?

 

7 - Will LOOT be able to properly sort out the order of merged mods?

Edited October 23, 2017 by Minakie

[Minakie]

I read that we could merge all our mod patches into 1 big file. I tried to do that and now the game won't start, it gets stuck on loading screen, loading and loading.

Here are all the files I merged together:

i-need extended, blowing in the wind - lanterns of Skyrim patch, CRF - shieldspellfxs, falkskaar - ineed patch, vivid weathers - winter, vivid weathers - extended snow, vivid weathers - extended rain, SMIM-Bruma patch, CRF - lighting overhaul, MCoW - campfire, farmhouse chimneys falskaar, hunterborn - campfire patch, hunterborn - ineed patch, hunterborn - soups and stews, rowboat campfire patch, blowing in the wind - helgen reborn patch, blowing in the wind - SMIM merged all patch, YOT - frostfall, YOT - ineed, YOT - hunterborn, YOT - wearable lanterns, YOT - reflection, dB-medium script range, dB-reduced splatter size, dB-reduced wound size, ISC enhanced blood patch, khajiitspeak - cutting room floor, khajiitspeak - ask the way, khajiitspeak - falskaar, khajiitspeak - ineed, khajiitspeak - the choice is yours, khajiitspeak - the notice board, khajiitspeak - the parrthurnax dilema, khajiitspeak - immersive citizens, open cities - holidays, khajiitspeak - open cities, realistic water 2 - ineed, realistic water 2 - watercolour, bells - OCS+ICAIO patch, alternate start - new beginings, blowing in the wind - open cities, farmhouse chimneys LAL+CRF, falskaar OCS, bruma - alternate start, khajiitspeak - alternate start, RDO - AFT, RDO - CRF + USSEP

Is it because I merged too many files into a single one? Could I still merge all these files if I separated them into 2-3 files instead?

Or do I have some files there that are not supposed to be merged with others?

Edited October 28, 2017 by Minakie

[VeronikaAlexandrov]

Think if I remember correctly you want to merge armor files with armor files, weapon files with weapon files and so on. I did that in incriments had several of my follower mods merged together was pretty good I'll look again once I've remodded/tweaked my game:)

[Minakie]

Regarding merging files only from the same category, would it be able to merge files from Audio - Music, Audio - SFX and Audio - Voice together, since they're all audio files?

Same for other categories such as merging Clothing with Clothing - Jewelry.

Regarding merging all the files from a category when you have several mods in it, is it safe to merge them all into 1 file? As far as followers go for instance, I have only 6 followers so far after I deleted a few (plus Amazing Follower Tweaks, Friends in Skyrim and My Home is Your Home) BUT... one of them is Rigmor, which is a follower that seems to give issues to some people. So would it be safe to merge her with all my other followers?

Speaking of which, Amazing Follower Tweaks, Friends in Skyrim and My Home is Your Home are not exactly followers, even though they are under the same category, but I'm guessing it's best not to merge them with the other files.

Also, I have a patch file for Rigmor (Rigmor of Bruma - BS Bruma patch). Is it safe to merge Rigmor with her patch?

Same thing for other categories such as player houses. I currently have 10 mods in that category, but a few are just regular houses while others are those houses that you can slowly build yourself over time. Is it safe to merge all of them together?

Edited October 29, 2017 by Minakie

[cdcooley]

Anything involving voice files are a problem because the paths to those files include the name of the mod. There are a few record types like dialogue that embed the mod name in the resource folders. So if you're merging mods you need to look in the BSA file for that mod and see if any of the folders have the name of the mod. If so you can't merge that mod with anything else if it would change the name of the file. So if that Rigmor patch doesn't include any of those problem resources you can probably merge it with the main Rigmor mod as long as you keep the name of the original mod the same.

[Minakie]

So if you're merging mods you need to look in the BSA file for that mod and see if any of the folders have the name of the mod.

How can I do that? What program is required?

[MacBran]

I know, this thread is a bit old, but I think its could help others.

To extract BSA, you could use Bethesda Archive Extractor: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/974

[audiodef]

Isn't Wrye Bash pretty good at telling you which mods can be merged into the bashed patch?

[Algabar]

Isn't Wrye Bash pretty good at telling you which mods can be merged into the bashed patch?

 

Wrye Bash isn't a real merging tool. It only lets you integrate smaller mods, that edit a few things, into the bashed patch. You can't e.g. merge follower mods or weapons/armor mods with Wrye Bash. For this task, you need "Mator Smash". You can get it from Github: https://github.com/matortheeternal/smash/releases.

[TheMightyArbiter]

A helpful tool for deciding what to merge (and to resolve problems preventing you from merging certain mods, and for cleaning your mods, AND for making your own... you get the gest - ENDORSE) is XEdit, where X = FO4, TES5, SSE, etc. If you apply the cleaning filter, you can see what mods have conflicts (eg. alters the same records) and the severity of the conflict. From here you can make an educated guess as to what mods can be merged, and edit them if you're having any issues.

 

1. If you're using the "merge plugins" program, it will usually tell you if a mod contains scripts, or script fragments. It also has other helpful "flags". If you're doing it manually, i suggest you unpack all the files and look for a "scripts" folder, KEEPING THE ORIGINAL COPY.

 

2. Esp's that are dependent on a master file, often in the form of patches, can be safely merged, as long as they don't alter the same records. If they do, i recommend removing the previous records from the dependant file manually in xEdit, so that the ones from the patch overwrites the main file (as long as it fills the same function as it did when overwriting the record through load order). Non-patch mods with a master file, and/or the master files themselves (as illustrated in Oxhorn's video) can be merged, as long as either the master file is left untouched or it and all of its dependent files are part of the merge. Sometimes, you can merge mods with a mod that is a master file for another mod, as long as it has the same file name and all of the records from the original file are left untouched. The basic principle is that mods that are required for other mods and/or patches are referring to the master file's name, and thus will not recognize a merged file with a different name, unless they themselves are part of the merged file (in which case cleaning your mods and eliminating conflicts is crucial).

 

3. This one is heavily case-to-case based, but generally, the same applies as for merging patches with their master files: eliminate conflicting files/merges and make sure your mods are cleaned. If you're unsure, generally, anything in the file that is overwritten by the patch that loads after that file, should be overwritten by that patch, the same way the load order would affect it, and so on so fourth. For example, i merged "True Storms" and "Vivid Fallout" with "Darker Nights" and the fog textures from "Radiant Clouds and Fog", as well as various patches and a custom compatibility patch for Fallout 4 + a HD retexture of the moon with phases, based off a mod. This worked well, although, a lot of editing was required to make the sound effects and various weather scenarios play well with one another. If you wanna make life a bit easier, i suggest merging various patches that ONLY depend on their master files into a single merge, excluding the master file, so that you can load them after the master files. This way they can still detect the master files. Set load conditions in LOOT for convenience.

 

4. First of all, back up your last 2 or 3 saves before changing your modlist at all, unless you tend to revert those changes before loading up the game. Secondly, take all the items from the mods you intend to change out of your inventory, and if you're paranoid, throw them out and leave that "cell" so that it is not loaded. A lot of shenanigans can happen when removing assets from the game that are being used. Not all of them appear immediately, and in some cases, it can cause save clutter. For example, if a mod has an error or a missing reference, and you have a container in your house full of things referenced or affected by those records, when the mod is removed, they may appear to be gone, but are still registered by the game. Imagine this with something that alters leveled lists. This can cause save bloat and possibly save corruption (?). In my Fallout 4 survival playthrough, i removed a mod that adds various attachments without removing the modded attachments from my weapon. This completely broke my weapons workbench menu for some weapons and was further established by a series of crashes after attempting to load the game without the mod installed. While on the subject of save corruption, never overwrite your previous saves. Make a fresh one and delete the old one (if you want to), and don't quicksave.

 

5. I've kinda touched on this, but generally, as long as you unpack your archives, you're good to go. Eliminate issues with FO4 edit and test in-game. I usually make a separate folder in my mod manager for "untested merged mods". This makes the process easier, as i can stay organized with which mods are merged with which and which are working. When i know they're functional, i add them to a "Merged ... Mods" folder. There are various reasons why some mods can't be merged with others, and not all of them easy to find or fix, so here, trial and error is the easiest approach. As long as you do it properly, most mods can be merged with each other, but because this is so hard to determine, the general rule of thumb is to merge mods of the same category with each other.

 

6. I don't use software like this, as it rarely makes ends meet. Thus, you still often end up with the trial and error approach (or missing assets/dysfunctional mods that you're unaware of, making troubleshooting a nightmare), except you didn't learn anything in the process. I also don't clean/check for errors with "merge plugins", but with xEdit, before i merge the mods.

 

7. Mods indexed on the nexus site are assigned with an ID, in order to keep track of them. This is presumably cross-checked against their database or something, so you (probably) can't just add it to some index. Thus LOOT doesn't know what to do with the mods, but provided you've compiled the merge into a zipped up folder (i recommend 7zip), placed it in the appropriate folder and manually added the path of the file through your mod manager, and your mod is detected and properly installed by your mod manager, and the esp shows up in your plugins window: you can assign certain load order conditions through LOOT to that file manually. In other words, if you know your merge has to be loaded in a certain order, you can fix that here, set and forget, then go take a shower as a new man/woman/helicopter, etc.

 

Furthermore, many mods that have external files (.bat files, [.ini's?], ba2's/bsa's, etc) are dependant on the name of the esp (for .bat files, it's not always the case). For example, i can merge a mod with another mod that provides framework support for mods that are load-order-dependant with another mod, like armorsmith extended, or armour and weapons keywords, with 100 armour mods, and still have it work properly (provided that the merge itself is good) as long as the file name and the contained files are intact and identical to the original file (unless your mod has files outside of the "jurisdiction" of your mod manager, in which case you'll have to alter the referred directories manually in those files).

 

For compressed files like textures (bsa's and ba2's) you can use the previously mentioned bethesda archive extractor (works for any bethesda game worth mentioning to date) to replace those files with loose files, which are placed into the correct folders by your mod manager, as they are recognized. Extract them with the tool and then replace the bsa/ba2's with the "loose files". Worthy of mention is that the archived versions take less time to load and require less memory, so if you have a 40GB retexture pack that has an esp for some reason (GRRRRR), you don't wanna do this^.

 

I don't post very often on forums, so my format and language is probably sub-par, but hopefully, someone stumbles over this and gets the answers they need, not necessarily the author. I also learned all of this through trial-and-error, so if i got anything wrong, feel free to tell me so. Since i wrote this on a whim, i expect there be inconsistencies.

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