Why an Orc would side with the Stormcloaks..

[J_R]

Howdy folks - I hope you guys aren't sick of Civil War discussions, I found the topic to be intriguing with my new Orc character. My first playthrough as a clever Dunmer siding with the Imperials was a no-brainer. This second play through is as an old Orc mage and I've found it very interesting how the thought-process has panned out for him in regards to who to side with - here's his take, and I'm inclined to believe it would be the take of other Orcs as well -

 

Why not the Imperials?

 

-The Imperials tried to lop his head off

-The Orcs have inhabited Skyrim for as long as the Nords (some argue longer) yet have had to take care of themselves and fight for the little table scraps they're allotted (though admittedly as a tribal people they prefer the traditional ways which include stronghold life)

-For many Orcs (including my character), Honor is the greatest of assets - and a good fight involves looking your enemy in the eyes - the Imperials couldn't be farther from that. Politics, backstabbing, plotting.. these are a part of how the Empire conducts itself.. quite a contrast from the Orc way of battle (even if the tribal way is archaic)

-Instead of fighting the Thalmor head on and maintaining their honor (even if it meant the death of the Empire), the Imperials allotted to suffer defeat and humiliation and become the Thalmor's lapdog, tail tucked between their legs - domesticated and shamed, even letting their dogma be outlawed. Something a true Orc would never let happen (again, it was arguably the wiser move on the Empire's part, but maintaining honor doesn't always mean surviving the process). The very spirit of the people was sold to the Thalmor in exchange for mercy. SHAMEFUL.

 

Why the Stormcloaks?

 

-(At the start of the game) My enemy's enemy is my friend

-Walking into the throne room and killing the High King is a very Orcish way of enacting a power grab. Elder (my character) thoroughly approves of how Ulfric handled that.

-The Stormcloaks are relatively transparent. They're fighting to claim their Skyrim for their people and reclaim their honor in the process. Sure in reality Ulfric is just another power-hungry self-serving d-bag, but one could argue that the rest of the army has purer intentions. They wish for a straight forward fight, to stand up to the Thalmor and proclaim themselves independent instead of slinking off into the corner. Much more respectable from an Orc's perspective.

-***The racism/xenophobia aspect*** - Yes Ulfric's a racist/xenophobic prick, but at least he is willing to stand up for his beliefs and his people. Besides, it's not like the Empire has been overly kind to the Orcs..all the Nords are pretty interchangeable to my character.. the reality from his perspective is that the Orcs have always, and will always have to fend for themselves and look out for their own tribe. Neither side would really impact his own people overly much.. the strongholds have stood amidst all the political changes that have swept through the region up to that point, and they'll keep it up regardless of what happens. Also, my Orc doesn't really care for Elves as a whole so it's no sweat off his back if Ulfric hates on them. From my character's perspective, if the Elves were strong people and had learned to take care of themselves like the Orcs have, they wouldn't be pushed around like they are now. In other words - Darwinism, it's their own damn fault they're a weak race in Skyrim.

-Last but not least, Joining the Stormcloaks would make for a much more interesting fight - more honorable, straightforward, and more bloody! That's how we Orcs like it!

 

 

Because of many of the above stated reasons, I'm actually finding my Orc to not really want to get involved until he has to. His position for the Stormcloaks would really be that of a Mercenary - think Wrex from Mass Effect. He's in it for the glory of battle, doesn't really give a crap about the politics. And there's certainly more glory to be had with the Stormcloaks. So joining the fight isn't high on his priorities because the politics don't matter to him, but if/when he's pushed into it, Imperial blood will spill!

 

 

I'd be interested to hear how other Orc characters have chosen! What do ya'll think?

[landy8]

I've played as a Nord warrior and Altmer mage. Now I'm a Bosmer thief. And I've joined the Stormcloaks. Why?

 

1. Imperials almost beheaded me. I think a character of any race (except Dremora, perhaps) will find it rather... unfriendly. BTW, they almost beheaded me FOR NO REASON, just wrong place - wrong time (wrong company).

2. I've asked Ulfric about his "racist" policy, and he told me that it's not Nords vs everyone else - it's free people (wanting to live as they see fit) vs opressors. I understand that it's all words, but Ulfric himself told me all this instead of ordering his guards to throw away that annoying Bosmer girl (first thing a real racist would do).

3. Nords like freedom. Bosmeri like freedom. It seems logical for them to like each other. (With Argonians, Khajiiti and Redguards joining the club).

4. Most important. WHY NOT? We have no idea about our character's background. All that we know is our character is no less than twenty years old (assuming Mer grow up with the same speed as Men - their childhood/youth lasts around 20 years, not 40 or 200). Twenty years ago there was a war. So our character was born during that war or even before it. He can be from everywhere and have any possible background - he can be a war victim suffered from Imperials as well as anyone else.

 

Good luck with your orc, J_R! I'll try that race a little later.

[Brandy1123]

You both have really good points about the Stormcloaks. Before I start a new toon, I come up with a reason I brought attention to myself and was captured as a criminal. Since I have no scritping options during the whole process, I can only conlcude that whatever it was, I truely was guilty. To the extent of my guilt, I feel since I didn't make the criminal ledger, was probably not all that great. It was just a case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. With all that being said, I do make a small background and jot it down on a text doc for each one I have played. I keep all my charater saves in their own folders after I play them. To me, I love the RolePlay aspect. Our modders do great things with framework of the game. I really enjoy other peoples stories, what made them chose what they have, the path they follow and what flame burns from within.

 

It's the ultimate reason I invest so much time in games like this. It allows an escape from the real world problems, issues an daily choices we don't have a reset or save to fall back on.

 

 

Added note : I can see it now.. ARGGHHHH!!! I needed the new Wal-Mart mod V2.1 with the change in custom aisle frames. Also, my Texaco mod inventory card isn't working with my Shell HD skins. When are they gonna update to Life v1.1 ? :tongue:

Edited March 13, 2012 by Brandy_123

[magiii]

we do know why your being captured. as ralof says you were crossing the border illegally and they caught you with the storm cloaks. and @landy the background of our char is what we say. its the whole point of role playing. your what you want.

 

im currently a dunmer mage and i chose storm cloaks. because my toon was cast out of morrowind and fled to cyrodiil. there he had a family. in the great war he became a soldier and went to war. after the war when he came back he saw his family gotten killed in the sacking of the imperial city. he wanted revenge on the Altmer but saw empire does nothing. he wandered for 20 yrs in cyrodiil and after that he wen to skyrim. he wants to get revenge both from altmers and empire so he chose storm cloaks.

[Brandy1123]

What was said about you crossing the boarder makes no sense being captured with the storm cloaks. At the start of your entry into the world stop before you enter the tower (while your hands are still bound). Look to your right and follow the storm cloak gaurd instead of the imperial. You hear a whole new episode about the storm cloaks being captured and has nothing to do with you, a boarder or you being with them for that matter.

[sukeban]

@Brandy

 

I think that our character is guilty of crossing the border illegally. Nothing more, nothing less (unless you want to RP it, of course). Interesting thing is though, Ulfric is said to have been ambushed near Darkwater Crossing in Eastmarch. This is not anywhere close to the border of Skyrim. Plus, this is Stormcloak territory. I think the most logical explanation of our fate is that we were caught by members of the Rift Imperial Camp doing a routine patrol along the border with Cyrodiil (meaning we were not literally caught with Ulfric). RIC is also conveniently en route from DWC to Helgen. This seems to me the only answer that really makes sense.

 

This would also mean that Tullius is killing us out of sheer laziness and NOT because we were apprehended with the Stormcloaks (so we weren't guilty-by-association). Long story short --> Tullius is lame.

 

@J_R

 

I think that your reasoning is spot-on. Orcs are definitely more like Nords in terms of custom, values, and tradition. And they got more or less (more) shafted by Hammerfell and High Rock when Orsinium was sacked for the second time. The Imperials didn't do anything to prevent this, and only moved them from Orsinium to Skyrim to make sure it didn't happen again.

 

Maybe you could RP an Imperial Legion veteran Orc (older Orc) or maybe an Orc whose parents were in the Legion. Before Orsinium got sacked, the Empire was pretty decent to the Orcs though. But Orsinium getting razed was a pretty big deal. My Orcish two-hander chose the Stormcloaks without thinking twice about it. She was about to be executed by the Empire. This demands that Tullius pay BLOOD-PRICE :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Edited March 17, 2012 by sukeban

[Brandy1123]

Thinking about his again, I believe you were caught trying to alter your keyboard hard coded keys. You were trying to equip your weapon and by tapping the arm key, you were mistakenly put into search container mode. Accidentally you dumped the contents of your back pack on the ground in front of them. The imperial saw you had mod equipped that made the stormcloak armor look better then theirs so they, obviously, had to aresst you.

 

 

If role played, an Orc has a good reason to be sided with either faction. Side with the, Stormcloaks, because frankly, by Orc legends, they are really the true nords. It is their land. I can see the imperials because the Thalmore hate the stormcloaks and want them all irradicated. So, Siding with the Imperials insures your claim to be the only and REAL true people of the north.

 

Understand this, however. Both sides will ultimately want to destroy you. Stormcloaks hate everyone not of the Nord race like them and the Thalomore want pure and uncontested power. Role play what makes your gameplay happy and enjoyable. Imagine a reason your particular character does what she or he does based on the individual characteristics that make your toon unique and different from the last one, or the next one you play.

[landy8]

Before Orsinium got sacked, the Empire was pretty decent to the Orcs though.

 

In the first two TES (Arena and Daggerfall) Orcs were not an imperial race - they were a class of hostile creatures. Gortwog (lord of Orsinium) back in Daggerfall told you something like "We're hunted down like animals. Detained upon sight." The Empire recognised Orcs as an intelligent race only after the Warp in the West - and it was in times of Uriel Septim VII, the END of 3rd Era.

 

It doesn't look like something decent to me.

[magiii]

orks are not that civilized either. are they?

[sukeban]

In the first two TES (Arena and Daggerfall) Orcs were not an imperial race - they were a class of hostile creatures. Gortwog (lord of Orsinium) back in Daggerfall told you something like "We're hunted down like animals. Detained upon sight." The Empire recognised Orcs as an intelligent race only after the Warp in the West - and it was in times of Uriel Septim VII, the END of 3rd Era.

 

It doesn't look like something decent to me.

Interesting. My TES experience begins with Morrowind, so I was unaware of this. All the more reason to make them pay a steep blood-price.

 

Side with the Stormcloaks and enlarge the strongholds. Consider it a small gift for services rendered.

 

@magii

 

I think that Orcs are (more or less) held up as examples of "the noble savage" trope (obviously only possible from a Western--in this case, Imperial--point of view). They are intelligent--yet tribal--traditional, honorable, and proud. They aren't purely savages (like the Falmer, goblins, the Forsworn*) in the sense that they don't make unrelenting and pointless war upon all outsiders or against their own people. They've got order in the strongholds and they don't bother anybody else. They might have "superstitions" like zealously following the strictures of Malacath in the hopes of pleasing him, but these superstitions don't really impact anybody who isn't an Orc. And in the Orcs' defense, Malacath is quite real and it is a great misfortune to fall out of his favor (the Cursed Tribe). IMO, Orcs are more than "noble savages," but I do think that this is how the Empire (the Dominion probably views them as actual savages...) views them.

 

*One might argue.

 

Personally, I like Orcs and wish that there were more of them in the towns as NPCs, having occupations other than "bandit" or "blacksmith." What happened to the Orc mages from Morrowind/Oblivion? I also wish that the strongholds were larger/had more of a purpose.

Edited March 19, 2012 by sukeban