Alaskan Oil???

[Ethre]

People can't seem to understand that mining, once completed can restore the area back to natural conditions, that drilling is far cleaner and safer than it once was, and that refineries can collect and make use of almost all byproducts.

 

Actually, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. I've grown up around oil fields (and some coal mines too actually), and several have gone in on family land ( I used to play around them as a little kid :thumbsup: ). In theory that can restore anything, but even when they do follow through on all the work their supposed to, its never quite the same. With regard to oil wells, for example, its incredibly difficult (and expensive) to completely get rid of the liners they put around the wells. There's also the infrastructure that needs to be put in (think roads, pipelines, etc) which requires dragging a load of different things to build and can get ignore in reclamation.

Additionally, any working on land messes around with the root systems and composting that's been going on in for hundreds of years. They try to avoid this by placing sod/etc, but 99% of the time, the stuff they use is different than the stuff their prior to drilling. This tweaks the plant composition, which affects bugs and birds, and so on down in a chain reaction.

 

 

And then there's the issue of actually getting the companies to follow through on their contracts . . .

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem to drilling in general, but I've seen enough of it to be worried about the ANWR if they do get in.

 

Edit to Clarify: I'm not just talking about personal experience with older wells, there's an oil boom going on at home right now.

[GRX3000]

Since foreign opinion was asked: Maybe the purpose is saving the own reserves. Energy, mainly non renewable sources are treated as national security issue in several places.

 

All forms of energy should be treated as national security issues. Whomsoever controls the energy we consume, owns the world.

 

Maybe the US should get its head out of its arse and really jump on the alternative fuel thing. Other countries have done it...I believe our friend Nosisab's home of Brazil went through a hard bit to get it done.

There are three differences, One, we have those places to get those resources, we are just too busy caring about the barely existant ecological impact. Two, the US is alot more developed than Brazil, so needs alot more of those alternative fuels. Third, those sources of alternative fuel, corn mostly, are extremely dependant on a good corn crop, and up till now was not economically viable, and still isn't since many farms have gone under due to increased operating costs.

 

Simply, you cannot replace the fuel needs of the country based on those alternative fuels as they exist now, or will exist in the near future. It would take 5-10 years for such a switch to take place, and by then trucking (the lifeblood of the country) would have dwindled to nearly nothing (since no alternative fuel has the performance requirements of the industry) and all air travel would have likely ceased (for the very same reason).

 

Which is exactly why this poo should've been going on since the 60s. We had the technology for the longest of time to harness nuclear energy, and look at France - they're actually doing something right for once! (That's coming from someone normally hateful of the French.)

 

Although, yes, there is some point in keeping reserves, the reality is that we don't even know what reserves we do have because we are not able to even investigate them. Meanwhile other countries can lay claim to whatever is close enough to international waters. We had a very large deposit of oil just off the coast of key west, we knew it was there, and did nothing about it because we have so many laws passed. Now there is an oil rig owned by china 50 miles off the coast which did some slant drilling, and is now helping themselves to that "reserve". Now where is the logic in that one?

 

This is true.

 

Where will the logic be when it eventually comes to actual war over oil?

 

Whoever controls the mass source of energy, is controlling the world's life source. That, is the logic in war for oil.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't oil the reason why Japan bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

Indeed, FDR (foolishly and treasonously) cut off the Japanese's oil-supply, so they attacked Pearl Harbor. Which got us involved.

 

As for alternative fuels, they will help with the consumers, but they will not solve the problem. Alternative sources are coming too slow too late. In addition, Vagrant is right, there is no alternative for our truckers, there is no alternative other than nuclear fuel for our ships, and there is no alternative for our aircraft. Can anyone here think of a way to keep a F-16 airborne without oil. There's ethanol alright, but not enough of it.

 

That is absolutely wrong. Sooner or later, oil will run out if WE DO NOT ACT NOW! It shouldn't matter what we did or didn't do in the past, we need to overhaul our energy sources before it IS too late. We start now, and we can get ourselves out of this problem in the years to come. There aren't going to be any immediate effects, but it will save our future as not only individuals but our nation as a superpower.

[GRX3000]

Now there's no doubt that alternative fuels will help, but the technology isn't mature enough to take the fuel burden of a nation such as the US. Remember people, the US is a nation of 50 different United States, all with their own economies and governments. Can alternative fuels keep those 50 economies going?

 

It is going to end, sooner or later. And when it happens whoever is in control will dictate the future of the world.

 

China is slant oil drilling off the coast, so is Cuba off the coast of Florida. Both are communist states. Not good for NATO. Yes, I know the Cold War is over, but that was just the USSR. China is still out there, along with Cuba who has already tried to pick a fight once already. What next? Next thing we'll know Russia will be slant drilling off Alaska, then we'll have no reserve. So I say drill before Russia does.

 

I agree we need to drill. But we need to find a way to drill but make it so it sunsets in appropriate timing while funding alternate energy research, namely wind and nuclear energy.

 

But Nosisab strikes a point that we need to begin on solutions NOW. Not thinking about it, but actually doing it.

 

This is true.

 

Keep in mind, this video is a little disturbing to some, because it presents the very real fact that America is being held hostage.

 

Disturbing, but it is a fact America is essentially being held hostage.

 

 

Well it was a bit off the topic sorry about that but the problem is mainly US and russia doesnt want to use their reserves and paticularly the recent activites of US is really pissing off the middle east countries and they tend to limit their productions, the south american countries are doing the same as well, that is why a barrel of oil is like 100 bucks now (Sorry dont know the exact price, and it changes constantly) so what happens is US's doing, they reap what they sow actually...

 

You may be Turkish, but I would wonder if you even know about economics. Prices of oil were fluctuating up to $100 as a result of supply and demand. But even most economists agreed that the oil market has been behaving unnaturally, they believed that after it hit $100 it was the fault of speculators. It is about 50/50 though: China has increased the demand-side of oil without any increase in supply for the past 35+ years, and it is likely a result of that which speculators really started to get started in the oil market.

 

It isnt national security interests. It all about the simple fact that the middle eastern oil supply will run out within this century.

 

Well you're wrong about it not being a national security interest, although the latter half you're right about. For now, the OPEC world has our throat held by their hands. They could just refuse to sell any oil to the U.S. and still make plenty of profits, and our military would fall like a fly. But if we can start on transferring to renewable energy sources, overtime we will become even more efficient.

 

And as smart as america is, do you really think we are gonna let another part of the world become as strong or stronger than we are? The key to that is controling the money in the long run.

 

We have been letting other countries own us ever since late 1890s. When we switched from a gold standard to a paper standard, and when we went through a cold war with Russia, instead of a real war...

 

And to talk about environmental issues to alaska if we drill. When the time comes alaska wont matter. Thats the name of the game kiddies. Thats the harsh reality of our world. Tie yourself to a tree and they'll just burn the tree down.....with you. Those "enviromentalist groups" are as powerless as we the people are because they have no warfare and have smudged there image by doing stupid things.

 

This is true.

[Varus Torvyn]

Hopefully we'll be able to drill for oil - if the right people occupy the White House come January.

 

But I've heard there's another piece of the puzzle. I don't know if there's any truth to this, but I have heard it said that there are many oil wells throughout Texas and Oklahoma that still have huge amounts of crude oil, yet were capped years ago because (at the time) the profit margin leaned more toward importing crude rather than pumping it domestically.

 

If this is true, then why not uncap these already existing wells and start pumping again? Adding those to the new drilling would really lower the price of a barrel of crude.

[Ethre]

Adding those to the new drilling would really lower the price of a barrel of crude.

 

I do not know about those wells, but it is perfectly possible they do exist. The question would be the numbers that exist, and whether they were capped after productivity had declined, or simply to limit production.

 

Personally, although I do not mind drilling, I fear that the price of oil will drop too far, too fast, and people will forget the need to work on alternatives and to limit consumption.

[Thanodai]

The reason the cost of gasoline is so high is because the prices are being manipulated by speculators and refineries. So we get it at both ends. Today, oil refineries in the US announced that they are only going to be operating @ 77% of capacity, this results in the lowest fuel supply since the 90s. And, no refinery in the US has been operating at 100% capacity for quite some time. Though the exact figures escape me at the moment.

 

On the other side, market speculators dumped billions into oil futures resulting in the massive spike in crude prices the first half of this year. It only started to drop again after they pulled $33 billion from the market. And I firmly believe this only happened because of the airline industry putting pressure on congress to change the laws.

 

There is no shortage, anywhere. The market and the supply are being manipulated causing oil and fuel prices to remain excessively high. Oil closed at $97.16 a barrel today and a false shortage from the oil refineries is keeping the fuel prices above $4.00/gallon.

 

Drilling for oil in Alaska isn't going to have any effect on the market until we regulate (read eliminate) energy speculation and modify how refineries operate.

 

-T-

 

Edited- Repeating myself and spelling.

[Thanodai]

Here's another snippet of news to infuriate us all about the state of the high gasoline prices. Cited from this article.

 

"Refineries operated at the lowest level on record in the week ended Sept. 19, according to EIA. Refineries turn crude oil into usable products, such as gasoline and heating oil. Refineries only operated at 66.7% of their operable capacity last week, which was even less than the 73.9% run-rate that analysts had forecast. "

 

Hopefully, their forceful manipulation won't come to fruition as demand dropped over the weekend.

 

On a side note, Congress has passed legislation that would at least curb energy speculation, hopefully it gets through the Senate and the President.

 

-T-

[CuChullain]

For a capitalist country some of you guys seems fairly ignorant of how world markets work. Instead of going on rant to explain I'll post a link or two I think all you "drill baby drill" types should read.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/06/18/...much-from-anwr/

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/...1815884,00.html

 

Cheers.

[Aeryn333]

For a capitalist country some of you guys seems fairly ignorant of how world markets work. Instead of going on rant to explain I'll post a link or two I think all you "drill baby drill" types should read.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/06/18/...much-from-anwr/

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/...1815884,00.html

 

Cheers.

 

Like I am going to have to agree with CuCullain on this one...mates

For similar reasons I am sure..la

 

Cheers

[Guest]

I also live in Alaska,Don Young is an ass & a crook. I'm against drilling in ANwar for reasons besides enviromental. Exonmobile has a futurs contract in asia to sell 65% of all oil it would produce from anwar in asia, 40% to China alone. The oil comp.'s are enen now shipping over 1 million barrels of oil a day out of the U.S. .