@Modders: Please don't add config spells or items!

[Liaen]

With the CK out there are more and more modders who add config spells and lesser powers to your spellbook or config items to your inventory.

Please do not do this!

 

This completely ruins immersion and imagine you have a lot of mods installed which also add new spells:

Lets say I install Deadly Dragons, Better Vampires and Dynavision, then I have a new Conjuration spell for Dynavision, one new Power for Deadly Dragons and 4(!) new Powers for Better Vampires.

If I also install Advanced Killmoves and Deadly Combat then I have two new items in my inventory to configure those two mods. AKM even has a script preventing you from dropping the book ( ;) ).

 

I know there is no settings interface to modify and you want to make your mod easy to config for the "average user" but this is not the way to go.

Maybe some day someone will add a new ui part where you can change mod settings but currently there are only the old fashioned alternatives:

 

- Horses for Followers is ok, it does add a config book, but its out there at the stables and doesn't pollute your inventory. It even adds some lore behind it.

 

- If you only have a few versions of your mod with different settings, just offer them all for download.

Or if you don't want to do this, put all versions in one archive and let the user install the right one with NMM. A good example here is Better Followers.

 

- If there are some ingame settings to modify, use console commands to change the settings or to summon the npc that lets you change settings.

If the "average user" is so smart and can install mods (which is made easier with NMM), he should also be so smart and use the console or choose the right version.

 

(PS: Yeah, I know Steam Workshop doesn't support multiple files to choose from, I know this sucks and there is no other way then to add new spells -.-)

[NanakoMagojiro]

just my thoughts

 

1. spells are easy and simple. a lot of modders aren't very skilled and may be scared of touching scripts much.

 

2. Offering multiple versions of the mod is stupid. There are a few situations where it works, but by and large it's a huge hassle for the modder, and multiplies the amount of work in maintaining and updating them all.

 

3. Console commands are also stupid. Try remembering how to configure your 50 different mods.

 

it's a bit of a problem, but i'm not really fond of your solutions. modders go with what works quickly and easily.

[EnaiSiaion]

A potential workaround is to find a quiet spot behind a house or some bushes in Riverwood and plant a number of items there. Add a script that triggers when you pick up an item, which aside from configuring the mod also replaces the item and deletes it from your inventory. Then all you need to do is go over to that spot and click the correct item.

[Mansh00ter]

So do you have any better ideas as to how I should allow my users to configure *script* variables? Because console commands don't work for that and I'm not about to create and maintain 20 different versions of my mod. There is a reason for config items/spells being the preferred method of allowing mod configuration since Morrowind. The method is simple, it works, and users can always know where to find them.

 

Personally, I find that selecting a "Shout of Configuration" is no more immersion breaking than opening a "user interface" full of floating letters and numbers. For spell immersion, there is the favorite list and hotkeys, everything else requires a bit of suspension of disbelief.

And this is coming from a modder who values immersion a LOT. Some things are just practical.

[Korodic]

I dont like configuration shouts and etc. Could always make those into special books or something at a semi-obvious spot.

[Mansh00ter]

I dont like configuration shouts and etc. Could always make those into special books or something at a semi-obvious spot.

 

That's a really bad idea. The whole point of having ingame config is that users can tweak your mod whenever they like. Imagine if you wanted to, for example, uninstall a mod or change something and you have to go all the way across Skyrim just to access one menu.

 

And finally, no offense meant, but players who find config spells/items immersion breaking are in a minority. Most players prefer the convenience of having the configuration options available at all times, with minimum hassle. I think they'd even get kinda pissed if you forced them to trudge halfway across Skyrim to access your out-of-the-way configuration book in some cellar. ;)

 

So for modders it boils down to whether you want to piss off the teeming masses or just a few people. :P

[Korodic]

I dont like configuration shouts and etc. Could always make those into special books or something at a semi-obvious spot.

 

That's a really bad idea. The whole point of having ingame config is that users can tweak your mod whenever they like. Imagine if you wanted to, for example, uninstall a mod or change something and you have to go all the way across Skyrim just to access one menu.

 

And finally, no offense meant, but players who find config spells/items immersion breaking are in a minority. Most players prefer the convenience of having the configuration options available at all times, with minimum hassle. I think they'd even get kinda pissed if you forced them to trudge halfway across Skyrim to access your out-of-the-way configuration book in some cellar. ;)

 

So for modders it boils down to whether you want to piss off the teeming masses or just a few people. :P

 

well I'm not disagreeing with you. I just have an extreme dislike for having my spell book cluttered. Precisely why I don't download Midas and even more so Pheonix

[SinderionsBones]

Yeah this is not going to be considered by regular modders at all. Hopefully no new modders will see or take talk like this seriously... The lesser powers and such are the most elegant solution so far made available for seamlessly doing this stuff. Tweak it in the CK yourself if it bothers you that much. Interface can't be modded to any significant degree since SKSE is lagging behind, everyone can use spells, spells are very flexible and usable anywhere anytime. Designers of stuff look for the best solution, and what you are whining about is the best solution for many many things. Your immersion isn't broken by the save/load menu... I hope... you can't extend the same suspension of disbelief to a mod configuration menu taking a slightly different form?

 

specificly:

 

- It's not at all about the "average user" it's as much about flexibility in game for anyone.

 

- Maintaining multiple complete versions is just silly in a purely volunteer/enthusiast setting, when it can all be done with a spell.

 

Like Mansh00ter, I mean no offense, but please don't even start labeling these, pretty creative and perfectly suited mechanics, as being a sign of bad or thoughtless modding. It's not, it's bringing maximum flexibility to the player. Adding something like this to a mod is a GOOD thing, giving the player an ability to customize and control things without clunkier mechanics. How immersion breaking is having to close skyrim, open up the creation kit(waiting the requisite 5 minutes), change settings, save, reopen Skyrim, and try to get back into your roleplaying or whatever mindset? It's not a big deal, just please do not encourage looking down on this sort of extra work being put in by the authors.

 

/concernedrant

[steve40]

It's the old "I have too many remote controls" problem all over again, innit? :laugh:

 

Maybe we need a "universal configurator tool" which is analogous to a universal remote control. It would gather all the config tools in your inventory and "hide" them, so that you only have the one configurator in your inventory. This universal configurator would have a menu that lets you activate the configuration menu's of the hidden tools :dance:

 

I suppose this solution is possible, but the author would have to code it for *known* mods and provide updates to support any new mods that have config tools as they are published. The author would also need the cooperation of the authors of each individual mod, or access to the source scripts, I expect.

[VileTouch]

It's the old "I have too many remote controls" problem all over again, innit? :laugh:

 

Maybe we need a "universal configurator tool" which is analogous to a universal remote control. It would gather all the config tools in your inventory and "hide" them, so that you only have the one configurator in your inventory. This universal configurator would have a menu that lets you activate the configuration menu's of the hidden tools :dance:

 

I suppose this solution is possible, but the author would have to code it for *known* mods and provide updates to support any new mods that have config tools as they are published. The author would also need the cooperation of the authors of each individual mod, or access to the source scripts, I expect.

This is nothing new, COBL had this from the begining. added a single book to the inventory that would open a menu where you could configure not only itself but many other mods. perhaps we need to start picking up ideas from oblivion and morrowind mods