@Modders: Please don't add config spells or items!

[gasti89]

I think the only "unimmersive" thing in all this stuff is having a book/spell labeled "configuration book/spell". The rest is obviously ok, it's just like the char creation menu. It's a f*****ing game guys ;) if you want total realism go out, buy an armor and a sword and go fight windmills!

 

This said, my suggestion is to add a bit of epicness to the texts. I'm not a mod user since about 4 months (i spend all the time modding), so i never used mods with configs.

 

I'll make an example

 

Let's say Deadly Dragons has a config spell. Instead of calling it "DD config", let's call it "path of the dragon".

 

Now opening the menu you see for example "easy mode" "hard mode" "hardcore mode". Let's call them in a more "epic" way, maybe add a epic image for every choice and a "medieval" description.

 

Done! This is totally immersive imho. Well, at least as immersive as pressing TAB and selecting an armor from the 30 you can carry on yourself....lol

[EnaiSiaion]

Not sure why this thread was bumped, but my 2c...

 

Maybe we need a "universal configurator tool" which is analogous to a universal remote control. It would gather all the config tools in your inventory and "hide" them, so that you only have the one configurator in your inventory. This universal configurator would have a menu that lets you activate the configuration menu's of the hidden tools :dance:

 

Unfortunately it really isn't trivial to access content from one mod in another. Any non-standard form you want to change you have to define yourself, meaning you have to create it yourself and it will create a conflict with the mod you intend to interface with.

 

The community could find a few unused formlists and globals, decide which information should be interfaced between mods and create a mapping between this information and the unused formlists and globals. Any mod could then use a script to write or read information to and from these repurposed formlists and globals. This would be a difficult project to actually implement and to get everyone to follow its good practices though.

[LukeH]

I don't like config items either in my inventory or spells, but they may be a necessarily evil. OP is talking about console commands...for me that would be ok but I can see others don't liking it. But how about combining the two: acquire the config item/spell via console use it, then remove it (via console or drop it in a respawning place). You can add it to player by default when mod is enabled and who wished can keep it there as long as the user can throw it then get it back by console, just don't make it essential for the mod to have it always in inventory or as a spell and it has to be fully functional if you spawn a copy.

I consider the idea of putting those stuff in remote hidden places the worst, not because you have to walk there but mostly because other mods might want to use that spot. It would be ok if you add a house and put such stuff inside it, but not if you change just some behavior withno other world changes in mind and then just pollute the world with things like this.

[Mansh00ter]

The really nice solution would have been if Bethesda included a "Mod Config" tab in the main Options menu and allowed mods to access it. Each mod has a tab and custom subtabs for itself. Nice, elegant, unobtrusive. No idea why it wasn't implemented by now.

[EnaiSiaion]

I pondered the idea of a universal remote a bit more.

 

It would take:

A "Universal Remote" mod.

One unused formlist in the regular game.

Modmaker discipline.

 

Each modmaker would use a script to add rows to this formlist (not drop them in using the CK!!). Each row should be a formlist itself, containing four rows in a predefined format:

1. A description of what the setting does
   
2. The global variable that is modified by the setting
   
3. A formlist containing the descriptions of each switch option
   
4. A formlist containing the values corresponding to each switch option
   

 

When invoked, the universal remote would loop through the repurposed formlist and expand the formlists on each row into 4 new formlists created by itself. Then it would loop through the first formlist to produce a list of settings it can control. Choose a setting and the remote would seek to the corresponding row number in the other three formlists, expand the two nested formlists with the different choices and adjust the global variable according to the player's selection.

 

This system would be foolproof, provided there is one unused formlist in the game.

 

How to implement the menu itself is up to the creator of the universal remote. This could be a dynamic dialog or item-based solution, or a "fun" option would be to create a circle of standing stones around the player named after each of the choices and determine which direction the player is facing. There could even be multiple different universal remote mods as long as they all respect the interface conventions.

Edited May 4, 2012 by EnaiSiaion

[VileTouch]

I pondered the idea of a universal remote a bit more.

 

It would take:

A "Universal Remote" mod.

One unused formlist in the regular game.

Modmaker discipline.

 

Each modmaker would use a script to add rows to this formlist (not drop them in using the CK!!). Each row should be a formlist itself, containing four rows in a predefined format:

1. A description of what the setting does
2. The global variable that is modified by the setting
3. A formlist containing the descriptions of each switch option
4. A formlist containing the values corresponding to each switch option

 

When invoked, the universal remote would loop through the repurposed formlist and expand the formlists on each row into 4 new formlists created by itself. Then it would loop through the first formlist to produce a list of settings it can control. Choose a setting and the remote would seek to the corresponding row number in the other three formlists, expand the two nested formlists with the different choices and adjust the global variable according to the player's selection.

 

This system would be foolproof, provided there is one unused formlist in the game.

 

How to implement the menu itself is up to the creator of the universal remote. This could be a dynamic dialog or item-based solution, or a "fun" option would be to create a circle of standing stones around the player named after each of the choices and determine which direction the player is facing. There could even be multiple different universal remote mods as long as they all respect the interface conventions.

 

i like the idea...only a small detail. if bodymesh modders can't agree on having compatible textures with each other creating several factions of players forced to choose the armors made for only one body, can we expect other modders to agree on a simple protocol for their own good? ...i would love to see that

[Mansh00ter]

Big issue is when you would try to have more than two or three mods in the menu. What if you have twenty mods plugged in? The way Bethesda made menus, too many options and they start clipping off the screen. I guess you could do it through dialogue, though personally, having to talk to some NPC or clicking on a magical stone to change this "timescale" setting is way more upsetting for my immersion than just selecting a config spell and tweaking some options.

 

Sometimes it is best to keep things simple. Config spells/books work. They are easy to access and easy to use (if done right). Even if you have twenty of them. The biggest problem is when modders name their config spells "Config" and you end up with ten identical looking spells with no idea which is which, but that's a noob mistake, I doubt serious modders make those.

[gasti89]

Infact, i think the only thing to fix is the text. Find more immersive names and descriptions and i think noone will complain anymore.

[kibblesticks]

I agree with the OP in that I dislike mods that add spells or items directly. I love the Chesko's Frostfall:Hypothermia workaround though. He adds a config book to every inn in the game (in an inconspicuous place) and a single message when the mod is activated for the first time reminding you where they are. His mod only kicks in after you pick up the book, so if you don't want to use it, just don't pick up the item, wonderful :biggrin:

 

I really dislike (and had to uninstall because of it) phenderix's Magic evolved (sorry phendrix :blush: ) because everywhere I went there were random cheat chests and duplicate dudes wandering around in ebony armour. Really broke immersion for me. I loved the spells though, just the in game item placement that bugged me.

 

I think modders should definately keep in mind is that their mod is a small part of a larger whole, and should fit into the game as such. It's difficult to remember that other players may not want to play your mod all the time, and that adding unnecessary features only serves to clutter other user's games.

[lasbotellas]

Config books seem the most simple and convenient. If the config is something likely to be changed intermittently (especially if it's a simple on/off setting), a zero-weight book can be carried around forever (the books category in the inventory is a mess regardless, so it's not like this is a big deal).

 

If the config is likely to be set once, a book of any weight can be used, picked up, and stored at the player's house, or wherever. It's not so terribly immersion-breaking to have a bookshelf with configuration books. You don't have to look at it all the time, and all your mods are in one spot and you know where they are and all. But very straightforward names ought to be used, even is that means they're a little immersion-breaking.

 

I don't use magic much, so I don't have many spells, but on the occasions that I do go to use a spell, config spells do tend to annoy me. I don't think people go looking through the books in their inventory very often, but people who use magic go into their spells tabs, and config spells take up space and clutter it up.

 

The only config methods that get on my nerves are the ones using the console and the ones using immovable objects out in the world. Though, the console configuration is less annoying if there's a book added by the mod telling you what the commands are. But it's annoying trying to figure out how to configure a mod and then realizing there's a statue in some castle or something that you need to go talk to, especially if you change the settings more than once.

 

If a universal remote mod is totally unfeasible, would it work to add a chest to some place in the world, and then everyone who adds a config book causes it to spawn in that chest? Then you always know where to go when you've added a new mod, and if you misplace a config book, they'll all have spawned again in there. Or you can just leave them all there and always go back to it, if you don't feel like moving them. I don't know if that would even work.