A Requiem for the Capital Wasteland - Areas of Foucs and Merger Wanted

[pwinkle]

Aye mate go for it, feel free to use any of the ideas i post. I'm just picthing ideas hoping that you'll like some of them.

Process of elimination, you know?

To be fair, I'm not saying Phillips should be some hero character, he'd still be the perfect corrupt bastard, as he is in the vanilla game. I was trying to get the point across that his goal is basically to swap Tenpenny for himself. The reason for any revolution being started? Because somebody decides they want the power and money that comes from being in charge :P

The way I was thiking of it more was that he's given the people 'freedom', ofc they dont really have any more than they ever did before, a few of them just have slightly nicer places to sleep at night but they still have to work their arses off for a ungrateful ruler.

 

If you don't mind me chucking in my two cents on Bad Company, I'll be honest I kind of like the premise of a military force just wanting to stabilise an area so the locals can build up their own government, but the only thing that concerns me is their apparent size. I'm not too sure on the exact locations of all the states you've mentioned (Im English) but I am aware that DC and Nevada are about 2000 miles apart, it just doesn't seem feasible that an army could secure that much territory in an extremely hostile environment and still be able to send large enough forces to have an impact on opposie sides of the country.

I bring this up because I remember there being a line when you confront the Legate about losing their grip in areas they've already conquered if they keep pushing too hard, and this is based over what, half a dozen states?

Maybe it would be more plausible if bad company consisted of a small, roaming platoon (26-55 soldiers) of people who are likeminded to the LW, who share the same urge to travel and cause a bit of chaos whenever they roll into town. Ofc just to kickstart the process in the area of a stable government being estabished, by being the catalyst that leads to one of the warring parties being removed from the area.

[Deleted2547005User]

pwinkle

 

Thanks for the ideas.

 

Bad Company nor the Bushnell Colony control vast amounts of territory. Bad Company is only after The Coven, who've traveled east to escape them. The Bushnell Colony's reach extends from Fort Collins to Cheyenne, and west to Kearney. Basically a 300 mile length by another 300 mile length. They are at war with the MW BoS, and that fight has them in the Kansas Wasteland only as a fighting force, not an actual occupation. They have no interest in D.C. and are only interested in the stories they've heard about New Vegas, and sent B.C. to investigate weather they are true or not. So they don't, relatively speaking, have a lot of territory, they may have only a small fraction of what the Legion or NCR has. In terms of man power, the region they come from is marginally speared during the Great War, not completely, but enough that people have a higher survival rate. That has led to a larger population and in turn more man power. Bad Company's numbers range from anywhere to 300 to 400 men and women, and only a sixth of that has traveled east to hunt The Coven.

[vindr20]

pwinkle

 

Thanks for the ideas.

 

Bad Company nor the Bushnell Colony control vast amounts of territory. Bad Company is only after The Coven, who've traveled east to escape them. The Bushnell Colony's reach extends from Fort Collins to Cheyenne, and west to Kearney. Basically a 300 mile length by another 300 mile length. They are at war with the MW BoS, and that fight has them in the Kansas Wasteland only as a fighting force, not an actual occupation. They have no interest in D.C. and are only interested in the stories they've heard about New Vegas, and sent B.C. to investigate weather they are true or not. So they don't, relatively speaking, have a lot of territory, they may have only a small fraction of what the Legion or NCR has. In terms of man power, the region they come from is marginally speared during the Great War, not completely, but enough that people have a higher survival rate. That has led to a larger population and in turn more man power. Bad Company's numbers range from anywhere to 300 to 400 men and women, and only a sixth of that has traveled east to hunt The Coven.

 

 

How can a 50-67 men take on the BoS, and remove them from the Purifier. This just doesn't add up.

Edited April 18, 2012 by vindr20

[Deleted2547005User]

Elder Lyons mentions the fact that the BoS is seriously overstretched when the Enclave attacks the Purifier, and after its activation it only gets worse having to babysit the water caravans. In game, I've seen roughly the same number of BoS soldiers, maybe more. Of course things always need a little adjustment, but considering the amount of forces at the purifier couldn't withstand such numbers, or the retaking efforts considering the many outposts the BoS control and how scattered those are, I felt correct in my numbers. With that many assets that need defending, and the distance between them, regrouping is difficult if not impossible if one wants to hold onto those assets. Not to mention the fact that most of the BoS were pressed into service, having to face a military trained group.

[Dysthe]

Kuroitsune, I'll help out as much as I can when school's out. Now, back to topic.

 

As for the addon travel mod, I'm not concerned overmuch by canon and lore. I won't break it, but why should I limit myself to what is set in stone? Along the whole path of the Lone Wanderers journey, I constantly remind the player of Fallout lore. You met the Midwestern Brotherhood, the iconic Denver, the Enclave in Chicago, and the Courier's Mile. I see nothing wrong with adding new groups and new, original locations for the Fallout world. Having the player run around all over the west to follow every little reference to their past, a past the player can choose to have or not, takes away from the journey and New Vegas.

 

This is reasonable to me. Truthfully, there's problems with the exact canon references. (Can we trust what the Courier says, if he or she can't remember and the Courier's trying to manipulate the person he/she's in conversation with?) However, I think that there is some value to them, especially in the context of a massive mod. They're guidelines. We don't want to create the entire United States, (even if we stole from the GTS, it's still a bear to code) and some locations are easier to build well than others. It is easier to build a rudimentary form of Kentucky, even with a massive amount of caves, then Chicago. You ever looked at a 50s version of Chicago? It's huge. Even if it had fun quests, (Field Museum: It's ALLIVE) it's death on wheels to do proper. No, we shouldn't limit ourselves to factions or quests, or anything like that, but we might want to pick a simpler path.

 

Better yet, we do a movie and call it a show, but let's say we attempted slightly more than that. We have a few options. We could do everything from Canada to Mexico. I don't suggest that option. We could do one long map. A long map would not feel terribly realistic, but it would limit the journey to a simple linear path. We followed the trail, make a few stops, get to location. Done well, it's acceptable; done poorly it is tedious. And, it simply isn't necessary to do all of the traveling, because, since we didn't see the wanderer go to the pitt on cart or the lookout on boat, we don't need to see him/her go by wagon. We could do all the wastelands necessary to get there. We could do a few small select wastelands to get there. It's similar to what we're used to, and while requires a lot of work, doesn't require a new game system. We could also implement Fallout 1 and 2 type travel system between games. (We create a map. We do a few landmarks. A few small random encounters. Let the little hash marks do the rest.) It's primitive and seems like backtracking, but canonical and cheaper to make. We could also do a combination (Fallout 1/small wastelands). I'm not sure what is the best way to implement a transition.

 

Content-wise, if we weren't straight to the canon, we'd want to save the DLC locations the Courier past through for the DLC. If you played straight to the canon, I'd give portions of a modified instance of the DLC world, but not the whole. I think the only location that may be absolutely necessary is Denver, Colorado. You also might want to build a New Reno, Fort Abandon and Vault City. At least we have the old game maps for those. In some ways, like you, I would be more keen on building new elements. The mind ticks of new adventures. Subterranean dwellers in Mammoth Cave, a North by Northwest game with the Enclave, etc. But I am equally sure, that given thought, we could think of something exciting for the canon sources.

 

Anyways, transitions are difficult to do, hence the reason why I avoided them. My priority is closer to improving and tying the original games. So, I want to address in this post what we get to kill. There were few things that got on my nerves about New Vegas. (First, it was a tiny little sandbox. Second, Caesar's Legion was less formidable than the average bloatfly...) Third, I killed way too many monsters in place of people, and all the monsters were less-than-scary creatures. I preferred the combat feel of New Vegas, but the actual combatants were a bit dull. Sure, I hated the Supermutant DC party, but I killed way too many Cazadors. I would like to introduce more people and humanoids to kill to the region, (that don't necessarily interfere with faction quests) and I would like to vary the amount of non-humanoid creatures. To this end, I suggest merging the project with the monster mod (although being selective about the pickings chosen from that mod, as not all of them really fit, some meshes are better done than others, and some monsters would work best if saved for a particular stories). I don't suggest adding werewolves, Predator, Terminator or the Alien Xenomorph. I do suggest the FEV subjects, ghoulies, mutated creatures and beasts. I also suggest replacing monsters for more diversified Fallout 3 and New Vegas locations.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Dysthe

[Deleted2547005User]

The transition wouldn't be a full walk to Navarro from D.C.. It's broken up by various travel systems. You take an underground metro line to The Pitt (may not have to be direct, could be the first part of a serious of steps), then you hope on a train to Chicago, getting off and continuing on foot when it breaks down or cannot travel further. On the path to Kansas City, the interstate is broken up by underground caves between the different worldspaces, to transition the path faster. In Kansas City, the way out of the city is a boat that will get the player to the end of the river bank (lake really), close to Topeka. The only area where the path isn't broken up is the Kansas Wasteland, and at the transition point is a blockade to Colorado. Here the player will make his/her way across by foot to Denver, maybe by other means depending on who he/she pleases in the Kansas Wasteland. Then in Denver you'll be taken to the end of the road by vertibird.

 

Adding new locations, or rather re-adding old locations from previous Fallouts was always something that needed to happen. What Locations I'm not sure, I'll have to dig around and find a map to address that. It also has been on my mind as well as chucksteel about asking for permission to use other modder's locations to the travel mod, like Dog City Denver. It would make things easier.

 

Merging any part of another mod is simply not going to happen for RFCW. We can vary the monsters to the wastelands, and increase the number of people wondering the wastes, and increase the difficulty of some factions, but merging others work to RFCW to add content is well beyond the scope of RFCW. For the travel mod it makes sense, but not for RFCW. At least not the standard edition.. wink wink.

[Dysthe]

I still wouldn't deal with Chicago. There's a reason it didn't appear in-game in Fallout Tactics. You're looking at a scale just shy of New York. It needs its own game. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the next game.

 

Getting lost in Illinois, even close to Chicago, is another matter. We could try to work with the creators of the old FO3 Alton, IL mod. The Denver Dog City mod also looks like it could be worked with, if the creators are willing. Both mods need meshes and some tinkering to work, but the baseline is already done. That only leaves Kansas and Colorado. Kansas City may be a bit much. The Tactics map was smaller, but the 1950s city was not quite so wee. Colorado has enough meshes from New Vegas to be feasibly developed, although it would be a very large map, and we'd have to deal with mountain routing. The project is easier though, avoiding California.

 

But I don't think there's any circumstances that would have had the Courier take the vertibird into Nevada to start the beginning of the quest. It seemed he/she was traveling by foot for the Mojave Express.

[SuperSonic64]

I had an idea for a faction after you go back to the capital wasteland. Why not bring in the commonwealth? Given their intense love of technology, they would be a perfect parallel for the brotherhood of steel in Navarro. Combine them with the brotherhood of steel outcasts, and you have a whole new faction bent on one goal. Pursuing the technology from the legends of the lone wanderer. They both have an affinity for energy weapons and high tech, and coding a few more humans wouldn't be that big a deal. If you throw in a few super-powered androids, you have a way of replacing some of the challenge of the super-mutant factions. As for a quest involving them, taking the water purifier would be the first logical step. It represents a challenge the commonwealth probably couldn't conquer, given Dr. Zimmerman's tone of voice about Dr. Li's work, and the spread out brotherhood of steel would have difficulty fighting back. If you turned in enough sensor modules and cameras, you would be able to once again be able to "take it back" with liberty prime, but this time against a smarter enemy with better weapons and armors. The faction could be housed in a fixed up raven rock base, and go back and blow it up again. I'm probably rambling at this point, but I figured they would be the perfect fit for a stronger enemy without having to justify the existence of a new faction. Monster wise, I have yet to play a decent monster mod. The npcs never mention these new threats to the wasteland, there existence is never justified, and frankly there are plenty of beasts that can be played around with as it is. Plus, wanamingos look really ridiculous in 3d. Also, is duct tape being added to the game world in the capital wasteland? It is really hard to repair weapons right now.

 

Sorry, one last thought. If you were going to fix some of the skill based perks in the beginning of the game, I would just turn them into traits and change there effects. I would love to have little leaguer improve melee damage/throwing range a little bit, and maybe daddy's boy/girl would increase the efficiency of stimpacks and decrease the decay of energy weapons. Thief could make it easier to pickpocket/move around undetected, while gun nut could decrease the rate of decay on your guns skill and increase the range of certain weapons. End rambling.

[Deleted2547005User]

Dysthe

 

I had planned on the courier walking to Primm to receive the package, probably from the Mojave Outpost or from the Divide. I didn't plan on building the entire city of Chicago, or Kansas City (although I could since I live there), because both cities would lay smashed and ruined. In Chicago, it would be similar to D.C. and couple of isolated worldspaces connected to one another. Kansas City though would be an open worldspace as the city is flooded and the player and everything else would be forced above the water. So basically it would look like a massive lake (rather shallow one) with buildings poking out of the water.

 

With the use of DCD and FO3Alton, it would reduce the amount of work we would have to do, leaving Kansas City and the Kansas Wasteland to be built from scratch.

 

SuperSonic64

 

The commonwealth isn't something I considered. But they seem to isolate themselves in Mass. hiding from the world. It is something I'll consider though. Originally, B.C. wasn't in control of the Purifier, only an additional faction that roamed the Capital Wasteland taking potshots at their 'enemies.' But as the story developed, especially the battle at Hormin's Crater, their presence seemed too minor for the player to consider helping. I had to put them in plain view of the player, making their presence felt.

 

Your ideas about the perks is spot on. Instead of boosting stats, they boost your abilities. Kudos.

[chucksteel]

Well, I've ben thinking about taking on Chicago. It is my home after all! http://forums.nexusmods.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/biggrin.gif I've ben thinking about this long before I started to help with the RFCW project. http://forums.nexusmods.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/whistling.gif It would be several small worldspaces inter connected via metro tunnels or El platforms.

 

The Loop, (downtown, Grant park, Lake Michigan, Soldier Field and, the Field Museum) ((This would be the biggest worldspace.))

Lake View, (Wrigley field)

Whicker Park, Buck town, Humbldt Park, (The wild, wild west side)

Bridgeport, (Comisky park, it will never be US Cellular field in my book!http://forums.nexusmods.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/angry.gif)

 

and, some other important landmarks like the "Stock Yards", "Pulman Train yards" but, I would never try to build the city in it's entirety. It would be done in the fashion of DC in FO3.

 

chuck

Edited April 18, 2012 by chucksteel