Skyrim - A game for tourists?

[EnaiSiaion]

Who cares what unmodded Skyrim is like? The great thing about the game is that there is a fix for almost everything, and if not, you can fix it yourself. :)

[Waller91]

On topic though, I'm partial to Sovngarde, and the mountainous areas outside of Markarth, feels a lot like Ireland. North west of Dawnstar, among the glaciers during the Auroras are especially nice as well.

 

Agreed. I kid you not, when I first gazed at the sky in Sovngarde....I almost cried. Its just beautiful. In fact, its now the background on my phone? Am I a fan-boy? Probably. Do I care? No. Does my girlfriend? No. I dont have one. :D

 

 

 

My point was that this topic has been made a million time and I dont feel like arguing it over again so I made my point simple .. Deal with it .. the game is different and plenty of people love it the way it is .. its not dumbed down .. they just put attention into different aspects of the game instead of leveling complexity. Done.

 

There need to be more posters like you, man. But with the digression aside, any comments on the actual topic? Any favorite place to roam/slay?

 

 

 

tbh the only issue i have with skyrim so far is its lack of in depth story line, your choices make little difference to the world, and npcs dont react to your achievements most of the time, that being said i enjoy the game a hell of a lot and am hoping the DLC will be more story focused than anything else

 

I completely agree, the story line was there, it just wasn't....there...Ya know? Everyone got the gist of what was going on, but I never really felt like I was a part of something bigger. Skyrim just doesn't make me feel like an immortal bad ass when I play...Lack of story depth, and Boss fights if you ask me. Looking forward to DLC.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Waller_91

[Fortunado3]

My point was that this topic has been made a million time and I dont feel like arguing it over again so I made my point simple .. Deal with it .. the game is different and plenty of people love it the way it is .. its not dumbed down .. they just put attention into different aspects of the game instead of leveling complexity. Done.

Its dumbed down, a fact that cant be refuted. Anybody that knows the series, knows this.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3

[etang2]

Fortuanado3, the statement "Skyrim - A game for newbs, casuals and the unreceptive. IMO." taken as a whole makes absolutely no sense. Unreceptive of or to what exactly would be my first question?

Not to mention, if you are playing it, don't you fall into the three categories you just mentioned? Now back on topic, I agree with Shadowgreen Cavern :thumbsup:

No, as in the game was a complete compromise from the dumbing down and extra hand holding, coupled with all of the cut fundamental features from the ES series. Beth's PR, marketing and subsequent decisions on the mechanics and gameplay were targeted to people new to the series, or the previously unreceptive gamers that were not interested in ES, or even RPGs before. People that didn't want to have to think, or make character decisions that *gasp* mattered. Skyrim still isn't complete to me. Lack of spell creation, degradation, attributes, acrobatics, and H2H as a skill are travesties. Thank god for mods.

 

I can just imagine whats next for the Fallout series, or the next ES. Even more linear and less creative options. Whether it was console hardware limitations, or time limitations, Skyrim is lacking, and arguably has even less options and mechanics than Oblivion. In a lot of ways Oblivion (of all ES games!) is better. And then the mechanics and options of the games before that? Forget about it, Daggerfall and Morrowind had so much more. The only thing vanilla Skyrim has on previous ES games is graphics, and the animations that derive from it.

 

On topic though, I think we all know about the beautiful Blackreach. I also like where some of the more obscure Stones are hidden, on ledges, in groves etc.

I would ask, dear sir, that if Skyrim had over-compensated and placed inumerous and bafflingly complex options to the game, would it still sell at the same rate as the previous titles. Also in relation to your dislike of the targeting at new gamers, I would ask to see your logic against a move like that.

If a player new to the TES was to purchase a new title on significantly more complex consoles or operating system, (eg PC, mac ect), I would hardly think that they would hardly appreciate Bethesda making it unnecessarily difficult to comprehend and even more so to play. It is immaterial, however, that the only addition to the gameplay is that of the graphics and indeed, in todays gaming world, one would have compounding mental problems derived from lack of appeasing visuals. Even more, many of the sub-physical attributes shown by TESV are groundbreaking to say the least and the complex coding involved with writing this program is indeed impressive.

I will, however, agree with your stance on Mods. Once the vanilla version is completed, it would be near unplayable if not for the arbitary existance of mods.

[etang2]

Also I find the Gilder Green mission cave absolutely stunning in all fundemental aspects, both physical and codex.

[Fortunado3]

Fortuanado3, the statement "Skyrim - A game for newbs, casuals and the unreceptive. IMO." taken as a whole makes absolutely no sense. Unreceptive of or to what exactly would be my first question?

Not to mention, if you are playing it, don't you fall into the three categories you just mentioned? Now back on topic, I agree with Shadowgreen Cavern :thumbsup:

No, as in the game was a complete compromise from the dumbing down and extra hand holding, coupled with all of the cut fundamental features from the ES series. Beth's PR, marketing and subsequent decisions on the mechanics and gameplay were targeted to people new to the series, or the previously unreceptive gamers that were not interested in ES, or even RPGs before. People that didn't want to have to think, or make character decisions that *gasp* mattered. Skyrim still isn't complete to me. Lack of spell creation, degradation, attributes, acrobatics, and H2H as a skill are travesties. Thank god for mods.

 

I can just imagine whats next for the Fallout series, or the next ES. Even more linear and less creative options. Whether it was console hardware limitations, or time limitations, Skyrim is lacking, and arguably has even less options and mechanics than Oblivion. In a lot of ways Oblivion (of all ES games!) is better. And then the mechanics and options of the games before that? Forget about it, Daggerfall and Morrowind had so much more. The only thing vanilla Skyrim has on previous ES games is graphics, and the animations that derive from it.

 

On topic though, I think we all know about the beautiful Blackreach. I also like where some of the more obscure Stones are hidden, on ledges, in groves etc.

I would ask, dear sir, that if Skyrim had over-compensated and placed inumerous and bafflingly complex options to the game, would it still sell at the same rate as the previous titles. Also in relation to your dislike of the targeting at new gamers, I would ask to see your logic against a move like that.

If a player new to the TES was to purchase a new title on significantly more complex consoles or operating system, (eg PC, mac ect), I would hardly think that they would hardly appreciate Bethesda making it unnecessarily difficult to comprehend and even more so to play. It is immaterial, however, that the only addition to the gameplay is that of the graphics and indeed, in todays gaming world, one would have compounding mental problems derived from lack of appeasing visuals. Even more, many of the sub-physical attributes shown by TESV are groundbreaking to say the least and the complex coding involved with writing this program is indeed impressive.

I will, however, agree with your stance on Mods. Once the vanilla version is completed, it would be near unplayable if not for the arbitary existance of mods.

Yes, it would probably have sold even more, since I know numerous people that didn't get Skyrim because of all of the missing features. The stuff I'm talking about isnt even complex, in a hard to understand sense. There's nothing hard to understand about attributes, spell creation, jumping high, H2H as a skill, armor and weapon degradation, whatever. They just add more to the game through customization, diversity, and options. Not to mention they are cornerstones of the series. Nobody complained about Morrowinds depth when it came out, so unless the gaming community got collectively more stupid from then to now, it wouldn't matter.

 

On another note that's a bit more on topic. I feel that Skyrim WAS made for the tourist, as in the dabbler who would play it for 20-30 hours then go to 'the next big thing', as opposed to being targeted to the actual role player or veteran of the series.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3

[Rennn]

How did this turn into a debate on if Skyrim is being dumbed down or not?

 

There is probably over a thousand topics like that.

I just made a simple, factual statement, and people just wanted to respond I guess. I didn't think it would cause much of a stir since I presumed that most here were familiar with the series and its current direction.

 

On topic though, I'm partial to Sovngarde, and the mountainous areas outside of Markarth, feels a lot like Ireland. North west of Dawnstar, among the glaciers during the Auroras are especially nice as well.

 

Perhaps you're not aware, but Skyrim and Oblivion are of similar size in landmass (with Oblivion being larger without counting Skyrim's mountains), and Morrowind was half the size of either in volume. In Morrowind the walk speed was just over half of what it is now (a feature that I strongly support and would like to add to Skyrim), so that's why Morrowind felt bigger. I'm not exaggerating; straight from the mouths of the interwebs, Daggerfall is 487,000 km squared, Morrowind is 16 square km, Oblivion is 34 km squared, and Skyrim is about 23 km squared. Note that with mountains, Skyrim's number is significantly higher, as Bethesda said, about the same as Oblivion.

(source: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1264541-skyrimoblivionmorrowind-heightmap-comparison/)

 

Oblivion seems smaller because of abundant quick travel and a very fast running speed. Morrowind feels larger because you move more slowly (realistic speed). Skyrim feels bigger than Oblivion because of a slower run (NOT counting sprint) speed and less accessible quick travel until you've already walked around for a while, but it feels smaller than Morrowind because it still has a faster walk and run speed than Morrowind, and running no longer takes stamina (though sprinting does).

Edited March 16, 2012 by Rennn

[Fortunado3]

How did this turn into a debate on if Skyrim is being dumbed down or not?

 

There is probably over a thousand topics like that.

I just made a simple, factual statement, and people just wanted to respond I guess. I didn't think it would cause much of a stir since I presumed that most here were familiar with the series and its current direction.

 

On topic though, I'm partial to Sovngarde, and the mountainous areas outside of Markarth, feels a lot like Ireland. North west of Dawnstar, among the glaciers during the Auroras are especially nice as well.

 

Perhaps you're not aware, but Skyrim and Oblivion are of similar size in landmass (with Oblivion being larger without counting Skyrim's mountains), and Morrowind was half the size of either in volume. In Morrowind the walk speed was just over half of what it is now (a feature that I strongly support and would like to add to Skyrim), so that's why Morrowind felt bigger. I'm not exaggerating; straight from the mouths of the interwebs, Daggerfall is 487,000 km squared, Morrowind is 16 square km, Oblivion is 34 km squared, and Skyrim is about 23 km squared.

(source: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1264541-skyrimoblivionmorrowind-heightmap-comparison/)

 

Oblivion seems smaller because of abundant quick travel and a very fast running speed. Morrowind feels larger because you move more slowly (realistic speed). Skyrim feels bigger than Oblivion because of a slower run (NOT counting sprint) speed and less accessible quick travel until you've already walked around for a while, but it feels smaller than Morrowind because it still has a faster walk and run speed than Morrowind, and running no longer takes stamina (though sprinting does).

I'm not talking about landmass (when in this thread did I ever talk about that?), I'm talking about mechanics, and options. Not to mention you can just fortify your speed in Morrowind, something that's not even in Skyrim.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3

[Rennn]

In that case, I'd like to see Morrowind's alternative to armor crafting or weapon tempering. I'd like to know Morrowind's alternative to sprinting. As I recall, if you couldn't outrun something in Morrowind at a basic running pace you were unable to speed up further without the aid of a spell, scroll, or enchanted item.

 

In fact, Morrowind didn't allow sneak rolling, interactive lock picking, dual wield, or magic+weapon combinations. In turn, Skyrim no longer offers attributes, spellmaking, or armor damage. In short, while each Elder Scrolls game has lost and gained features from the last, they have remained stable in terms of complexity since Morrowind.

[Fortunado3]

In that case, I'd like to see Morrowind's alternative to armor crafting or weapon tempering. I'd like to know Morrowind's alternative to sprinting. As I recall, if you couldn't outrun something in Morrowind at a basic running pace you were unable to speed up further without the aid of a spell, scroll, or enchanted item.

 

In fact, Morrowind didn't allow sneak rolling, interactive lock picking, dual wield, or magic+weapon combinations. In turn, Skyrim no longer offers attributes, spellmaking, or armor damage. In short, while each Elder Scrolls game has lost and gained features from the last, they have remained stable in terms of complexity since Morrowind.

Your right, Oblivion had most of that though. Sprinting adds nothing to the game, except for a lame reason to not have overall speed variables. sneak roll, interactive lock picking, magic and weapon combos, were all in OB. So yeah, nothing new added there really. Most of the complexity is gone, even enchanting got watered down. Skyrim is easily the most watered down and linear ES since Arena. It was made to accommodate the dabbler. Todd's own words and the series obvious direction.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3