LE Main Quest/Civil War Overhaul

[behughes]

Bump because this is great. I agree with everything on the above post. I also think that you should meet Esbern later because it's him that tells you that the world will end unless you defeat Alduin quickly.

 

Glad to hear you like the ideas. Just out of curiosity, when specifically do you think Esbern should appear in the story? Just curious, because I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on how the story could be made better. Is it an issue with the character himself, or just something he says? I guess I don't remember the specifics of his dialogue all that well anymore, since I pretty much ignored him after the whole Paarthurnax ultimatum.

 

As I'm going along brainstorming, I'm now thinking about breaking this massively ambitious mod idea into smaller - though probably still unrealistically ambitous - projects, one of which will be a significant overhaul of the Blades, so I really don't know what to do about Esbern... I'm not sure how my Blades mod idea is going to affect the Main Quest yet, or rather, how much it SHOULD affect the Main Quest, if at all. Any ideas?

 

- - - - -

 

As it stands, the ideas I'm playing with in my mind for the Blades overhaul are as follows:

 

-expand the Blades in a lore-friendly way to make them more of an information/espionage-centered faction (as in Morrowind)

-add new NPCs, with full back-stories and unique talents, on which you will receive dossiers and whom you can draft into the organization, instead of just recruiting random followers.

-add one or more quests, that involve the dragons, the Thalmor, the Civil War, or any combination of those three things, or none of those things (I don't know yet :P)

-some kind of resolution to the ultimatum Esbern gives regarding Paarthurnax, a way to retain both the Blades and the Greybeards as allies, but not without some cost*

 

Other thoughts:

 

I want to keep the dragon-slaying element of the Blades in the game, but tone down its focus, because to me, Esbern and Delphine seem a little too dogmatic about wiping dragons of the face of the earth, considering that one is actually HELPING you save the world. I also don't like the idea of blades members just hanging out in a dank temple in ancient ceremonial armor, when they should be out in the world, in plain-clothes, spying on Thalmor agents, gathering intel on the war, or the dragons, or some other intrigue. For example, maybe the Blades pick up on rumors of a weapon of mass destruction (The Eye of Magnus) that may potentially fall into Thalmor hands, and send an agent to the College of Mages to learn more, giving even non-magic oriented players a reason to do the College quests.

 

The Blades are known for their tendency to maintain deep cover, and often have friends in both high and low places. They attempt to infiltrate every level of society, and are not above using any resource they need to accomplish their goals, save maybe the Daedra or Dark Brotherhood. Expanding the Blades could also provide role-players an excuse to get involved in factions that otherwise don't fit their character build. This was done in Morrowind to some extent. And because of their discretion, you never know who might actually be an agent. A guild member, a house-carl, maybe even that drunk Embry who hangs around outside the Sleeping Giant? In Oblivion's Thieves Guild, unsuspecting NPCs would later reveal their cover, maybe even train you, but only if you were a member of their privileged group... why not do that in Skyrim with the Blades?

 

I want to divide the Blades into project-oriented taskforces. One group could be focused on gather intel on the Stormcloaks, another on the Empire, etc. Delphine, as the acting Grand Spymaster of the Blades in Skyrim (according to http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Delphine) would be in charge of a taskforce on Thalmor activity. You and Esbern would head the dragon task force, so your job would be to gather intel on the dragon threat, and train a force to fight them - perhaps even teaching them the Thu'um!

 

According to lore, the Blades were officially disbanded by Titus Mede II when he signed the White Gold Concordat, and have not acknowledge or served the kings of Cyrodiil since the death of Martin Septim. Because they only acknowledge and serve the dragonborn kings, the Blades might even suggest that you or your descendants have a legitimate claim to the Imperial throne, and thus the organization would also serve to protect you and conceal your true identity from the Empire's enemies. While many can learn shouts (e.g. Ulfric Stormcloak), you are likely the only dragonborn living. I don't think the Thalmor would permit such a person to rise to power. A certain degree of discretion combined with some counter-intelligence measures would be necessary to protect the potential heir to the Empire from such an enemy, right?

 

*As for the Paarthurnax debacle, I know there are already two mods out that "fix" this, but I'm not a big fan of having the dragonborn just pull rank on Esbern. I think Bethesda intentionally forced you to choose: a dragon-hating group that will help you hunt and kill them, thus helping you easily get dragon souls - or a dragon-revering group that help you find the words of power. You obviously need both for shouting, so its actually pretty smart that they give you this sophie's choice, from a game design point-of-view. Its probably the only choice in the game that has a real impact.

 

Of course, it also makes the Blades TOTALLY USELESS. Not only is the prospect of slaughtering Paarthurnax in cold blood depressing, its not even practical. Dragons attack you constantly, giving you a pretty good supply of souls, but the words can only be learned one way, and since I'm too lazy to find them on my own, I always side with Paarthy and the Greybeards. I think there should be a way to retain both allies, but it needs to cost you something. At the moment, I'm thinking it should cost you Esbern's loyalty. He decides that he wants no part of what you're doing, makes some excuse about "being too old for this s*** anyway" and goes back to his hole to await the end of the world. You can still be a Blade, retain Delphine's loyalty, and have them fight dragons along side you, but you lose his intel on dragon locations, as well as the Dragon Infusion perk. Does this sound like a fair trade-off?

 

- - - - -

 

Any ideas about the Main Quest rewrite (what you would change), the Blades mod, the Paarthurnax Ultimatum issue, etc. would be much appreciated! I'm off to find tutorials on quest editing!

[behughes]

Some last afterthoughts about the Blades:

 

The idea of the Dovahkiin being a potential heir to the Imperial throne is not actually wild speculation, but supported by existing lore. As detailed in "The Rise and Fall of the Blades," the dragons originated in Akavir, but were hunted by the "men" of Akavir, calling themselves the Dragonguard. The dragons fled to Tamriel, and the Dragonguard followed, until Reman Cyrodiil halted their invasion at Pale Pass. As Esbern tells it, Reman demonstrated that he had the ability to use the thu'um, and thus the Dragonguard swore fealty to him. Reman Cyrodiil's dynasty went on to rule over the Second Empire of Tamriel. Interestingly, in the very first moments of Skyrim, the road along which you are being taken to your execution is actually Pale Pass, and the attack on Helgen sets into motion events that lead to you being recognized as Dragonborn. Even Paarthurnax says, upon defeating Alduin, that his victory is not the end of his story.

 

So basically, the Dovahkiin or one of his offspring could become the next Emperor. In fact, I think the likelihood is great enough that Bethesda may incorporate this into future DLC. Because of that, nothing in my mod will speak of the possibility in absolutes, but will simply state that the Dovahkiin's claim would be valid, were he to make one, and as the last dragonborn, the Blades have to protect him.

Edited April 4, 2012 by behughes

[Nick_Jin]

Personally, I am unhappy with both factions for other reasons. I cant fully stand behind either of their cause. I think a lot of people feel that the story was lacking, but I am not sure that details will be enough.

 

I think a third faction, more along the lines of starting a revolution in Skyrim, would be a lot more fun.

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/637504-alternative-to-empire-vs-stormcloaks-a-better-faction/

[shotgun188]

Behughes, Esbern is the one that tells you that dragons mean the end of the world. Before him, you're just thinking, "I wonder why the dragons appeared...". I feel this is what rushes the player to complete the main quest.

[yota71]

I dont ever feel in hurry to complete the main quest, in this playtrough i have just played the way of the voice quest :)

[behughes]

So I've to get the first part of this working somewhat, though there are a few issues I need to work out.

 

As it stands, I've managed to get it so that "Before the Storm" is complete after the Jarl says "Here, take this as a small token of my esteem," dialogue ends there, and the quest doesn't advance - which is more or less what I wanted. I removed the lines "There is another thing you could do for me..." and replaced them with new dialogue, but for some reason my dialogue didn't show up in game. I'm combing over the tutorials today to see what I missed, most likely a script or two was forgotten, since I haven't the faintest idea what I'm doing and I'm pretty much just inserting or deleting random bits of code and crossing my fingers :P

 

I dont ever feel in hurry to complete the main quest, in this playtrough i have just played the way of the voice quest :)

 

Do you RP when you play Skyrim? I prefer to, though I'm not disciplined enough to stop myself from just meat-grind quests, if I get too many at once. I can never ignore a quest that isexpressed to have some urgency when I'm role-playing; it breaks immersion. Of course, if the quest giver says, "Hey, if you have the time, go retrieve my stolen sword/ring/amulet/sweetroll from those filthy bandits" its a different story.

 

That said, I understand that I am making much ado about a very small detail of the game, but as someone who has dabbled in screenwriting, and just had to suffer through Mass Effect 3, I feel I need vindication in the form of a game that actually lets you re-write the story :) I really do think the subtle changes will make a big difference though.

Edited April 4, 2012 by behughes

[YsmirNord]

maybe some extra quests after completing the civil-war, you are after all legate/commander of a army. like fighting at places where the army should fight (besiege bandit forts etc.) and command a army. And regarding the comments above, after completing the main quest and after completing the civil-war quest choosing the side of the Imperials and the fact that the Emperor is murderd (if you want to be total good guy, you could ad a optional file that empire dies of a disease or something) you could be empire, a little to ambitious, but the nexus site is the most important mod site in the world and has also the best modders of the world, so if some great talent sees this it might get a chance

[behughes]

maybe some extra quests after completing the civil-war, you are after all legate/commander of a army. like fighting at places where the army should fight (besiege bandit forts etc.) and command a army. And regarding the comments above, after completing the main quest and after completing the civil-war quest choosing the side of the Imperials and the fact that the Emperor is murderd (if you want to be total good guy, you could ad a optional file that empire dies of a disease or something) you could be empire, a little to ambitious, but the nexus site is the most important mod site in the world and has also the best modders of the world, so if some great talent sees this it might get a chance

 

Thanks for the input! I really need all the ideas for the Civil War that I can get, since my focus has mostly been brainstorming stuff for the Main Quest and Blades.

 

I've decided to bring this topic to the Troubleshooting subforum, since this technically DOES exist now, albeit in a very fragile fetal state. Hopefully it will get more attention from experienced modders.

 

In the mean time keep the ideas coming!

[avenger404]

If this is still going, I don't know if any of you have seen my mod on adding bossfights to the main storyline, if you want me to help in the combat department, I'd be more than willing! I am quite new at modding, so I'd need a little bit more time than some to do simple things, but I think I've got some decent ideas for interesting and challenging bossfights.

 

Here's the link to my mod

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=13238

 

I was also asked to create some "bosses" for the civil war storyline as well, so if you wanted me to do that as part of this, I'd enjoy that :)

Edited April 5, 2012 by avenger404

[behughes]

--Progress Update--

 

As of this moment, I've got the first part of this mod working, and the NPCs are behaving exactly as I need them too. I fixed the faulty scripts from my first attempt, and now I just have to work out some kinks related to a bug in the creation kit itself, which causes the voice audio to not show up in game. There is a work-around, but its late and I probably won't get to it tonight.

 

It looks the second part of this is actually going to be easier than I had expected. The only missing piece is the script that checks if a certain amount of time has passed before advancing the quest stage. Once I have that, and I get those audio bugs worked out, I'm going to upload this for anyone who wants to try it out and give me feedback on the new dialogue. Right now, the branching dialogue options I'm adding - the stuff you say in response to NPC dialogue - only really portray two emotions, eagerness vs reluctance, but there will probably be more added later.

 

Thanks for reading!