IMO - FO4 -vs- FO3 & NV

[jjb54]

FO4 -vs – FO3 & NV.

 

First this is my opinion and I understand that. In saying this, if anyone wishes to debate and/or dialog my points, GO FOR IT! :smile:

 

But if all one is going to do is:

… Attack me

…. Tell me: “ Just don’t play the game ..”

 

Those are not dialog, and I will just ignore them, 2/b honest.

 

So I honestly did my best to give FO 4 a fair chance and more than a few times. I found that something was M.I.A.

 

So I went back to FO 3 & NV and replayed them both for a good few hours.

 

I play all of them in the Hardest Mode, just in case you wonder. I love a good challenge!

 

It was while in FO3, when I was easily 3 or so hours into the game I noticed I was having fun and enjoying the discovery of this “ Old Friend. ”

 

So what was it, what was M.I.A. in FO4?

 

Here is what I noticed:

 

1. There was NO GRIND in FO3 and NV.

 

.. I did not have to deal with building those settlements. Which was just a lesson in frustration. I was glad for a number of mods that came out that made that GRIND a whole lot easier, but they still did not remove all the GRIND of cleaning up and such.

 

.. That obviously this was part of some Quests, that if you did not ‘ get this done ‘ …. well, certain Quests were not allowed to move forward.

 

Thus a lot of mods were created to try their best to remove this specific GRIND from the game.

 

In FO3 & NV, you started to do exactly what you want:

EXPLORE … EXPLORE and yes FIGHT! :smile: There was NO GRIND in either of FO3 or NV.

 

2. I’ve often been saying while playing FO4, “ How did you all make it to see 21, let alone puberty? ”

 

Seriously, between the Emo Snowflake Settlers, to the wimpy Raiders, all of them, to the Mercenaries that cry, “ Daddy! ”, seriously “ Daddy! ”?

 

The Gunners would never pass the test for the Talons, they would be shot on sight or be fed to Death Claws for yelling, “ Daddy!! ”, just saying.

 

3. I got tired of wiping their noses, changing their diapers and listening to the Emo Snowflake words and attitudes.

 

Case In Point:

The kids in FO3 – Little Lamplight - have more backbone than 95% of the NPC’s in FO4. The kids in LL would chew the NPC’s in FO4 up and spit them out before they knew what hit them!

 

I never once have heard a Talon cry: “ Daddy! ”, let alone see them run in fear and hide. Again, if they did, the others would likely feed them to Death Claws.

 

Same is true for FO-NV. ALL the characters had / have more backbone and a pair.

 

The NPC’s in FO4, with a very few exceptions would make it in FO3 or NV. They would be Death Claw Meat, or Slaves or …..

 

In fact even any 1 NPC of FO3 or NV have more backbone than most all of the NPC’s in FO4. That is really sad.

 

The NPC’s of FO3 never coward out of a fight! Never, even though when I was getting my butt kicked, I wished they would! :wink:

 

4. The Sandbox.

 

Both FO3 and NV have a seriously more diversified Environment and People, than FO4. All the areas have their own Quests and Rewards to keep the player very busy!

 

This was the other thing that I noticed. NV and 3 were a whole lot more fun to explore, with one exception: Far Harbor.

 

I was glad that I found out, for me .. what FO4 was seriously MISSING.

 

FO3 – NV did not have any “ Grind ” parts and the NPC’s had backbone, character and diversity of a sandbox to explore!

 

What are your thoughts?

[montky]

@jjb54

another great thread;

we've been speaking about this for... 2015 - |currentyear|, what, 3~4 years?

may I say, it never gets old hehe.

they must have done something right, for folks to continue to mod the heck out of it hehe.

-----

 

 

 

I get what you mean; the more dynamic/self-referential emotional investment was present in prior fallout games,

ambient quests were framed differently, there were different fractals per gameplay hour for ambient events etc.

gamestates complexity was objectively greater in FO3 and FONV than unmodded FO4.

 

yes, FO4 unmodified was a very different game relative to other entries in the fallout continuity...

quantifiably - in the lack of Ron Perlman title-cards per Gamestate (a staple of prior entries),

and, the number of unique endgames or gamestates possible...

 

I miss the AI, the disguise system, the karma system, and "Talking Heads" etc,

though megamod projects and overhauls are rectifying that.

though, it is also revolutionary in what the engine can do etc.

they weren't sure of folks setups and what the engine could do...

it handles so much read-write in runtime, it's fairly awesome in that respect.

much like 8bitguy shows how an RTS can be made today and put onto a Commodore64,

which 'experts' from back then said was "impossible" etc...

as to lore, fan mods, CreationClub etc have all added immensely to it,

so, I enjoy modded FO4, it's my favorite Fallout game to date with mods,

it is 3rd or 4th unmodded behind FONV, FO2, FO3 and FO:Tactics.

 

FO4 though is awesome with

MemoryDenVirtualHolodeck, customizable settlements (which with War of the Commonwealth etc, is like Fallout Tactics!),

FalloutVR, and AGI Games Master, Talking Heads, BountyBoard, Better Regionalization, Aquatic Spelunking,

all kinds of stuff. modded, it is one of the more complex games out there at the moment,

it's right up there with

ARMA, StarCitizen, UniverseSim, NoPersonsSky etc

 

-----

Base FO4 unmodded is a "tabularasa", it is ostensibly deliberately empty,

to encourage the player to 'make the story their own' - and that, exegetically, is a stroke of genius,

the minimalist-narrative possible, which combined with Just-in-time rapid-prototyping AGILE/LEAN development,

means user-generated content 'fills in the gaps' and completes it...

but that, is another story... ^{_{one which to this day is under-told.}}

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing what other perspectives folks have to share,

and thanks again for another great thread.

[jjb54]

@jjb54

another great thread;

we've been speaking about this for... 2015 - |currentyear|, what, 3~4 years?

may I say, it never gets old hehe.

they must have done something right, for folks to continue to mod the heck out of it hehe.

-----

 

 

 

I get what you mean; the more dynamic/self-referential emotional investment was present in prior fallout games,

ambient quests were framed differently, there were different fractals per gameplay hour for ambient events etc.

gamestates complexity was objectively greater in FO3 and FONV than unmodded FO4.

 

yes, FO4 unmodified was a very different game relative to other entries in the fallout continuity...

quantifiably - in the lack of Ron Perlman title-cards per Gamestate (a staple of prior entries),

and, the number of unique endgames or gamestates possible...

 

I miss the AI, the disguise system, the karma system, and "Talking Heads" etc,

though megamod projects and overhauls are rectifying that.

though, it is also revolutionary in what the engine can do etc.

they weren't sure of folks setups and what the engine could do...

it handles so much read-write in runtime, it's fairly awesome in that respect.

much like 8bitguy shows how an RTS can be made today and put onto a Commodore64,

which 'experts' from back then said was "impossible" etc...

 

as to lore, fan mods, CreationClub etc have all added immensely to it,

so, I enjoy modded FO4, it's my favorite Fallout game to date with mods,

it is 3rd or 4th unmodded behind FONV, FO2, FO3 and FO:Tactics.

 

FO4 though is awesome with

MemoryDenVirtualHolodeck, customizable settlements (which with War of the Commonwealth etc, is like Fallout Tactics!),

FalloutVR, and AGI Games Master, Talking Heads, BountyBoard, Better Regionalization, Aquatic Spelunking,

all kinds of stuff. modded, it is one of the more complex games out there at the moment,

it's right up there with

ARMA, StarCitizen, UniverseSim, NoPersonsSky etc

 

-----

Base FO4 unmodded is a "tabularasa", it is ostensibly deliberately empty,

to encourage the player to 'make the story their own' - and that, exegetically, is a stroke of genius,

the minimalist-narrative possible, which combined with Just-in-time rapid-prototyping AGILE/LEAN development,

means user-generated content 'fills in the gaps' and completes it...

but that, is another story... ^{_{one which to this day is under-told.}}

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing what other perspectives folks have to share,

and thanks again for another great thread.

 

.. as a mod friend ( FO3 - NV & 4 & Skyrim ) said: The Mods of FO4 - not all, seem to fight the good fight to try and remove the 'grind' from 4 ....

 

I still found it sad that the FO3 & NV NPC's have more Backbone even the kids of LL .... than those in FO4. ;)

[llamaRCA]

I completely ignore the settlements and the game is great fun. I prefer FO3, but the superior gunplay and improved mechanics in FO4 make up for a lot of what it lacks.

[jjb54]

I completely ignore the settlements and the game is great fun. I prefer FO3, but the superior gunplay and improved mechanics in FO4 make up for a lot of what it lacks.

 

I agree the gun play and such in FO4 are ' better ' ... but again, what I noticed almost to a glare, was the vast difference in the NPC's ... in FO3 and NV -vs- FO4.

 

IF there was a bet which would win - Talon or Gunners, Gunners would be running home to " daddy " ... as the Talon's fed them to Death Claws, heck even Mirelurks would make a meal out of the Gunners. :O

[MissingMeshTV]

I completely ignore the settlements and the game is great fun. I prefer FO3, but the superior gunplay and improved mechanics in FO4 make up for a lot of what it lacks.

Yeah...that’s pretty much where I am with FO4 these days.

The settlement system confused me from the get-go...it just feels bolted on and has nothing to do with why I started playing Fallout games. I’ve more or less ditched settlements with the exception of two I built up in the CK and reuse in each game only so I have a place for vendors and doctors. It’s amazing how much more fun the game is and how much more I actually stumble across because I’m not spending hours trying to get Legos to snap together.

If I wanted to play Minecraft or the Sims, I’d play Minecreaft or the Sims. The settlement system was a sorry replacement for actual worldspace development. For better or worse in regards to their design, the older games had places you could discover, were populated with NPC's you could interact with, get quests from, trade with...locations that became part of the narrative. Think places like the 188 Trading Post, Goodsprings, Primm, Novac, North Vegas, Freeside, Arefu, Bigtown, hell...even the Republic of Dave was more interesting than the likes of what you find in Commonwealth settlements.

FO4 gives us...Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill...and that's pretty much it. Any other potential for cool places to discover and interact with has been replaced with empty settlement locations we're expected to build up ourselves with such engaging gameplay as "Oooh....I can plant another row of mutfruit over here," and riveting NPC dialog as "Ever been up to Greygarden? Whole place is run by robots" repeated ad nauseam by one-dimensional Sim settlers. Pppft.

I love FO4, but got bored with the whole settlement thing early on because it really adds nothing to the game. Nothing you do in a settlement has an effect on anything with the story or your character.

So yeah, less Minecraft meets the Sims and more interesting and developed locations to explore and interact with would have been awesome. The town of Far Harbor is the only location in the game that fits the example if what is missing in that regard. If even just a few of the vanilla workshop locations were at least partially as developed as the town of Far Harbor, imagine how much more interesting and complete the game would feel.

EDIT: I've been playing a lot of FO3 and FNV myself lately, so this thread is rather timely. Been using FWE for the first time with FO3 and of course, Project Nevada for FNV in hardcore mode. It really is refreshing to be spending time with those games again. And yes, it really does make you realize the things that are missing from FO4 but also that there are bits that are a vast improvement over the older games, namely the consumable and armor/weapon mod crafting systems and combat. And Vertibird travel isn't anything to complain about either. :smile:

[jjb54]

 

I completely ignore the settlements and the game is great fun. I prefer FO3, but the superior gunplay and improved mechanics in FO4 make up for a lot of what it lacks.

.....

EDIT: I've been playing a lot of FO3 and FNV myself lately, so this thread is rather timely. Been using FWE for the first time with FO3 and of course, Project Nevada for FNV in hardcore mode. It really is refreshing to be spending time with those games again. And yes, it really does make you realize the things that are missing from FO4 but also that there are bits that are a vast improvement over the older games, namely the consumable and armor/weapon mod crafting systems and combat. And Vertibird travel isn't anything to complain about either. :smile:

 

 

Ya, I am playing with FWE myself ... it adds a whole lot to the game! Yes, FO 4 does have it's ' good points ', but it's 64 Bit and FO 3 is 32 bit ..... and such.

 

I still found Mayor McC. as a kid has more backbone than the Gunners in FO 4. As I was listening to this kid, I went, " Wow, this kid would give the Gunners a serious run, and the kid would win! As the Gunner's would run crying, " Daddy!! ".

[Gruffydd]

Kind of obsessed with that whole "daddy" thing, aren't you?

 

I played and enjoyed 3, 4, and nv. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally I hated karma, which other people love. It's completely arbitrary. Kill someone? No problem. Take their stuff now thst they're dead? Oh no! Theft! Bad karma for you! And don't get me started on the cookiecutter downtown areas in 3. Talk about a grind....

To each their own. Some people enjoy the repetitive battles of a good chunk of the map in 3. Some people enjoy building settlements and rp'ing rebuilding society. And some people are apparently only here for nude mods or more guns. That's the beauty of the FO games, especially modded, you can emphasize the parts you liked.

[Moksha8088]

I think the games have progressively gotten better. Fallout 4 is the most engaging of the three for me. I do the settlements, but I like to use mods that make the process less tedious. Not sure why Bethesda tacked it on to Fallout 4, but I do know a lot of people liked the rebuilding mods in Skyrim. However, they were more quest-oriented and less like Rollercoaster Tycoon.

 

Wish some mod maker had taken me up on my request to have the Manny, Moe and Jack team of building contractors mod, build your settlements in exchange for completing some radiant quest. Then perhaps have the fabulous and flamboyant interior decorating duo of the Mick & Ralph mod give the residences wonderful window treatments and other flourishes in exchange for more radiant quests.

[jjb54]

Kind of obsessed with that whole "daddy" thing, aren't you?

 

I played and enjoyed 3, 4, and nv. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally I hated karma, which other people love. It's completely arbitrary. Kill someone? No problem. Take their stuff now thst they're dead? Oh no! Theft! Bad karma for you! And don't get me started on the cookiecutter downtown areas in 3. Talk about a grind....

To each their own. Some people enjoy the repetitive battles of a good chunk of the map in 3. Some people enjoy building settlements and rp'ing rebuilding society. And some people are apparently only here for nude mods or more guns. That's the beauty of the FO games, especially modded, you can emphasize the parts you liked.

 

On the " daddy " thing. Never heard it in 3 and NV. The first time I heard it from a Gunner, I was like, " WTF? " Seriously, what merc would ever cry " daddy "? Even some friend that are Real Life Military have said things along the line: " If we ever said that in battle .... well .... "

 

Basically I've come away from 4 asking; What was Beth thinking?

 

Sim-City - Meets Fallout 4. Emo-Snowflake Wimps meet Fallout 4.

 

Bottom Line: The kids of Fallout 3 in Little Lamplight have more backbone then Gunners do. ;)