jeedge Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 All, I am looking into trying out Mator Smash. I've always used Wyre Bashed patches for both oldrim and SE and very familiar with that. When comparing the two, which patch type seemed to 'work better'? Did Mator Smash resolve any major or minor issues that Wyre Bashed patch did not? Same question in reverse order as well... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algabar Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 EDIT: When I first wrote this, I confused "Mator Smash" and "Merge Plugins" (both by the same author...) Now hopefully the correct answer with the correct names: In general: Use Mator Smash or Wrye Bash, not both. If you need to reduce the number of active plugins, use Merge Plugins BEFORE Wrye Bash or Mator Smash. Addition (06/04/2018): As of now, I'd prefer Mator Smash over Wrye Bash. Reason is, Mator Smash simply can include more records. I've tested it a bit, and Mator Smash really seems to do a great job. There might be plugins, that don't work well with a "smashed patch" from Mator Smash, but that goes for Wrye Bash and its "bashed patch", too. TBH, until now I only had issues with some Fallout 4 plugins and Mator Smash, in Skyrim SE everything worked like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeedge Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 Excellent explanation Algabar, thank you. I am very familiar with Bash patch but never used Mator Smash before. I did watch a video after I posted the question up (maybe should have watch the video first LOL). Also confusing is a lot of misinformation out there suggesting to never use both at the same time? Anyway, I am still happy with the results I get using Wyre Bash and since I typically try to stay below 160-170 mods total, I don't think I'll be needing to check into using Mator Smash anytime soon. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayombie Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Only problem I have with WB is that when it merges level lists for armour and weapons I have imperials and storm cloaks with 3 types of swords and two sets of armour. It's jarring but not a game killer by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algabar Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Only problem I have with WB is that when it merges level lists for armour and weapons I have imperials and storm cloaks with 3 types of swords and two sets of armour. It's jarring but not a game killer by any means. I sometimes see that, too. Not sure if this is fully intentional. On the other hand, you definitely get the loot from all the mods that add something to leveled lists. Still a whole lot better than waiting forever for some things to drop... EDIT: @jeedge: Glad you foudn my post helpful. As for using Wrye Bash and Mator Smash together: I don't see any reason, why you shouldn't do this. In my "Oldrim" setup, I got some 390 mods installed - merged into round about 180 plugins altogether. And OFC I got a bashed patch at the end of my load order. This setup has been working without any issues for about 2 years now. As pointed out above: Do the merging with Mator Smash first. Follow the instructions and use common sense: Never merge anything with scripts in it, only merge plugins of the same type (e.g. generic followers, weapons and armour....). After creating the merges, let Wrye Bash do its job and you're good to go. Edited February 4, 2018 by Algabar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeedge Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 @999-jay-999 - I see that duplicated armor thing happening on my build. It's actually a blessing in disguise since I just recently started recording videos of my game-play and have UNP nude bodies installed. So if not recording, I simply 'take all' then the corpse is nude, but when recording I've been trying to keep things PG rated so the extra armor let's me still loot, then I leave the worn armor on the body. So I still get good valued loot, without changing the rating of the video! :) @Algabar - Hmm, I may experiment with this then at some point. I see the opportunity to merge 9-10 mods as a good starting point. A while ago I ran the experiment outlined in the SSE Fixes mod page (installing a ton of dummy mods, 20 at a time or so between tests) and I saw, firsthand, the so-called issue of Skyrim SE FPS being effectively lowered simply due to higher and higher mod count, regardless whether the mods contribute to taxing the game engine or not. In this case, the dummy ESPs did not contribute any load to the engine at all and yet the FPS went down. So if this Mator Smash patch could let me net a few FPS back, it'd be worth it. Regarding the fixing of outstanding new/old bugs, Bethesda kind of reminds me of a Patriot's Coach Belichick news conference >> "...we're on to Cincinatti!" http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap3000000403749/Belichick-We-re-on-to-Cincinnati :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algabar Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 @jeedge: I followed the discussions about the "SSE Fixes", too. There shurely is evidence that the phenomenon you described really exists, which is definitely an argument pro Mator Smash.Merging plugins to prevent this issue of FPS drop with lagre numbers of plugins may become even more important, since we currently don't have a really working version of "SSE fixes" The official version here on the Nexus is totally outdated. The one provided by a user in the comments section at least doesn't crash my game, but on the other hand it doesn't seem to do anything beneficial either. Thankfully, my SE mod list is still rather "short" (about 115 mods) and I've never run into serious FPS problems. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will stay that way."On to Cincinnatti!! :ohmy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrocosm144 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Short answer: Always use Wrye Bash. If you need to reduce the number of active plugins, use Mator Smash BEFORE Wrye Bash. Explanation: Both programs do very different things.Mator Smash simply lets you turn several single esp files into one esp. This merge is permanent and it contains everything, that was in the single plugins before - apart from conflicting records, where one record wins over the other, depending on how you set up Mator Smash. If you want to change the merge, you have to rebuild it. So, put shortly, Mator Smash makes one big esp out of several smaller ones. Wrye Bash can be used to reduce the number of active plugins, too, but this is rather a side effect. Two of the main reasons to use Wrye Bash are to help prevent mod conflicts and to create properly working leveled lists, if there are multiple mods adding items to leveled lists. The last one is the main reason for many peopüle to use Wrye Bash.To achieve this, Wrye Bash incorporates relevant record (normally not the whole mod) into its Bashed Patch. Plugins, that are fully integrated into the Bashed Patch (usually smaller files, that contain rather minor edits) can be disabled after creating the Bashed Patch, so you can save some plugin slots, too. The original plugins themselves aren't changed, just temporarily disabled. Since Wrye Bash is by far the best way to get properly working leveled lists, it is always necessary - no matter if you merged some files before with Mator Smash or not. I think you're you confusing mator merge plugins with mator smash? AFAICT Merge plugins is great for reducing unnecessary esp's, but mator smash is totally different thing/app, that does handle leveled lists and everything else that wrybash bashed patch does. Running wrybash to make a bashed patch after you've already generated a Smashed Patch will not work, because it will disable plugins the smashed patch relies on, and also disable the smashed patch. if you must make a bashed patch, do it before you've generated the Smashed patch, not to be confused with Merge Plugins patch which those should be done before the bashed or the smash patch. Edited May 31, 2018 by macrocosm144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuagaarWarrior Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I believe macrocosm is correct. I have not used Mator Smash yet but will be for future mod lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algabar Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I think you're you confusing mator merge plugins with mator smash? AFAICT Merge plugins is great for reducing unnecessary esp's, but mator smash is totally different thing/app, that does handle leveled lists and everything else that wrybash bashed patch does. Running wrybash to make a bashed patch after you've already generated a Smashed Patch will not work, because it will disable plugins the smashed patch relies on, and also disable the smashed patch. if you must make a bashed patch, do it before you've generated the Smashed patch, not to be confused with Merge Plugins patch which those should be done before the bashed or the smash patch. Yep. You're right and I'm sorry. Just corrected my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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