Pallette Editor?

[Winterhawk99]

I've been working on my first mod with a team now for a month. I've created a final build outline and have started to build the dungeon. Using the Dwemer tileset I have found that the palette is very disorganized and I am wondering if there is some kind of General File Format editor that can be used to rearrange the palettes to a useable form so that building can go more quickly and finding the right tile faster.

 

This is the editor I use in other games I create.

 

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4046/palletteeditorfortilese.jpg

 

The tileset in the editor is one I created for the CTP team. small but you get the gist from the file names and string references that it is a tileset. This editor controls how you see the various terrain tiles on the palette of the tool-set. We really need something like this in Skyrim. perhaps there is one already created that I do not know about. Hopefully there is.

 

Please advise on if there is one or if not if one needs to be created.

[Bannor9]

Maybe a "tag" based system, where individual items in the list could be "tagged" with various names/types so they could be more easily organized or at least logically searched for/through?

 

The current layout is horrendous, as if it was a project created by committee with full privileges to mess it all up, or created by several different individuals with different ideas on organization, and just thrown together.

 

Don't get me wrong, I FULLY appreciate the fact that Bethesda has provided us with the CK in general. It just needs some User Interface (UI) adjustments to make it more user friendly.

[tunaisafish]

Do you mean you want something better than the built in editor?

 

Object Palette Editor

[Winterhawk99]

Hi Tuna and thank you,

 

I'm not sure if OPAL is what I want. I will play with it and see. The main thing is that I want to rearrange the default pallete so that it is easier to find the pieces of tile that are needed. Make groupings such as floor tiles, walls, corners, and columns so they are easier to find. This is how the above example of my general file format editor rearranges the palette so things are easier to find. You can track the groups and individual parts I created so its easy to referance what I want.

 

Tileset from the editor above.

 

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5213/palettearrangement.jpg

 

It's easy to use where as say I want small halls for the dwemer tileset I have to look in the Facade grouping to find and put them in. I want to create a new group called small halls and transfer the models from Facade to my newly created group small halls so I can find them easily when i want them.

[Bannor9]

Do you mean you want something better than the built in editor?

 

Object Palette Editor

 

 

Yes, as the OPAL window still forces you to go find things and drag to create your own palette. Since Bethesda dropped "objects/items" all over the place, there is no way to really find them all other than manually looking at every entry.

 

For example, I have found at least 3, DIFFERENT, "clutter" groupings. Inside of each of those, is various "items" etc. Some/most of the names make a bit of sense if you break it down, but you have to know what to "search" for to find them.

 

Winterhawk mentioned the NWN format for palettes, and with that system, the end user COULD create new entries and sub-entries. Change the Title or Name of anything etc. Not really all that easy, but at least it was possible.

 

Here, in Skyrim, what is considered "clutter" equates to what was called "items" in NWN. Although the "items" listing was much more inclusive, with sub sections for weapons, armour, etc. Those same sorts of things exist in Skyrim, but are really problematic to find and are definitely not well organized.

 

If we could add "tags" as I originally mentioned, multiple tags to multiple items, say each item could have up to 10 tags (or more as desired) we could then search by tag/type etc. Say you want candles, or other general light (non-light) items. If they were tagged with say "Light", "Candle", "Source", "Item", "Non moveable" and "Moveable" etc, you could get a return on a search by the tags that might give you MORE items than you think might apply.

 

Those are just samples of potential tags, There could be dozens that might help a builder find what she/he was looking for.

 

The OPAL system only appears to allow a single final type of list, with no actual organization at all other than alpha sort.

[tunaisafish]

Hi guys :)

 

For decorating and cluttering the Opal's are very useful, but I'm not sure that it would help all that much with setting up the building and architecture. One good thing about them though is that it's a quick way to get a visual of the pieces.

 

On the page I linked Beth provides several .opl files. Yes you can only have one list loaded at a time, but there's no reason you can't have subfolders for different categories. I'm not sure if anyone has created and shared opl files for the architecture.

 

I agree that tags and filters would be a big improvement. You can rename the items, but it's still only an alpha list.

 

Edit: A word of warning if you're going to create opal's for a custom ESM as I did. The .opl files store the full formID when they are created. So if you pass that to someone else it will only work if their version of the esm is loaded in the same order as it was created.

Edited April 6, 2012 by tunaisafish

[Bannor9]

Hi guys :)

 

For decorating and cluttering the Opal's are very useful, but I'm not sure that it would help all that much with setting up the building and architecture. One good thing about them though is that it's a quick way to get a visual of the pieces.

<snipped for brevity>

 

Edit: A word of warning if you're going to create opal's for a custom ESM as I did. The .opl files store the full formID when they are created. So if you pass that to someone else it will only work if their version of the esm is loaded in the same order as it was created.

 

Wait, are you saying that if I have other mods/esps/esms loaded, and I transfer the opal to someone, they MUST have the same mods and loaded in the same order, even if we are not touching ANY of those mods?

 

If true, then that really, REALLY sucks.

[tunaisafish]

I've not tested with Skyrim, but found that to be the case with New Vegas. The CK is not that much different from the GECK.

So it needs confirmation that it is still the case. Looking at the Beth skyrim opal files does not show a filename stored though, so it's a good assumption.

 

I'd created the .opl for items in my custom ESM while it was loaded in slot 01. Right after the falloutNV.esm in slot 00.

So it doesn't matter how many other mods were loaded, just that someone using the custom opal files would need custom.ESM in slot 01 too.

 

The Beth opal files don't have that problem as the base items they refer to are always in slot 00.

 

This was fine until the DLC's came out and pushed the custom.esm into slot 02 on most people's machines.

Yep it does suck. But users just had to be aware that only while editing with the opl's that custom.esm should go above any DLC's.

 

Hope that makes better sense :)