Steam influenced Skyrim's quality?

[Overcast73]

 

 

I'm sure nobody gives a damn. I'm just amused that I'm not the only person who has OCD issues with Steam's folder tyranny.

 

LOL, yes. At least I'm not the only one!

 

And yes, I spend more time modding Fallout 3 than playing it. I mean, I can still work within the boundaries of Steam ok, but the question I have about the folder setup - is why?

 

It's not necessary - so why try to enforce that?

 

I guess my whole point is that most of the DRM out there only impacts paying users. Not pirates, most 'hacks' modify the original EXE directly, thereby rendering all DRM useless, since the EXE you launch has been edited to not look for the DRM at all.

 

Doesn't matter for the most part personally, I will buy any game I'm going to play, short of demos that are offered.

 

I really like the concept of Steam overall - the idea of the gaming community, the patching, ability to easily download (even though usually I prefer media - that's a large part of the benefit to me in paying for media), but then they want to apply various hassles to it all for the sake of DRM.

 

I'm not opposed to working to prevent piracy - but why make it so user unfriendly?

 

Sometimes I wonder if many of these companies don't want to just do away with PC Gaming, but I'm set on PC Gaming. I started many years ago 'console gaming' on the Ataru2600, but once I found PC gaming - I was hooked. So flexible in general and I've gotten accustomed to the Keyboard/Mouse - console controllers almost always make my hands hurt.

[Fortunado3]

Steam.

 

Yeah, all in all, I don't mind Steam, and actually like it. Its pros and cons, along with its praise or criticism is very subjective, and usually an extremist viewpoint whether for or against. Steam is a hassle sometimes, but compared to big gaming (what I call the console industry), and where big gaming is headed, Steam looks like a pro gamergod send. There are legitimate beefs with Steam, but I find a lot of it is blown out of proportion. You know the type, the ones that come across as sob sister blow hard communists, thinking Steam is coming to take away your freedoms and make you a slave. That's M$, not Valve.

[chaospearl]

I really like the concept of Steam overall - the idea of the gaming community, the patching, ability to easily download (even though usually I prefer media - that's a large part of the benefit to me in paying for media), but then they want to apply various hassles to it all for the sake of DRM.

 

I'm not opposed to working to prevent piracy - but why make it so user unfriendly?

 

True story: I once got myself into real trouble as a direct result of my obsessive need to micromanage my hard disk structure. The fault lay in not remembering which of the "folders" I see whenever I look through the C:\Games directory are really shortcuts pointing to various subfolders of the Steam directory, not actual folders with the game installations inside.

 

Now, it's hard to forget that little fact with regards to Skyrim and Civ V, as those were the games that prompted me to begin the habit of creating a folder in the C:\Games directory for every game I own, even if the game isn't really installed there and the "folder" is a shortcut to its actual location. But I've also purchased a couple other games from Steam that I play only rarely (damn you, impulse shopping). I've got several dozen games on my hard disk at the moment, only a handful of which are from Steam.

 

It was SimCity 4 Deluxe that landed me in hot water. I'd used the same "shortcut in the C:\Games folder" trick to keep things organized, as I have three other Sim-games installed and none of the others use Steam. The difficulty came after a post on my favorite SimCity forum in which I unthinkingly used my own file path as an example of something or other (ironically, I'm pretty sure the discussion involved how people chose to keep stuff organized when a game offered countless expansion packs and DLC). I ended up having my account summarily banned without warning and couldn't figure out why -- the email I received informed me that I'd been banned because software piracy is illegal, and I was confused as to why on earth the moderator would think I had a pirated copy. I'd been following and chiming in on a lot of different forum threads so that particular post didn't immediately come to mind. Turns out that a folder path like C:\Games\SimCity 4 typically indicates a pirated copy. It makes sense now, but it just never entered my mind until then. Lesson learned, lol.

 

I've gotten accustomed to the Keyboard/Mouse - console controllers almost always make my hands hurt.

 

Keyboard & mouse isn't an option for me because most of my finger joints are fused into a curved position, which makes it very difficult to rest my hand on a flat keyboard with fingertips on certain keys. And even if I could manage that, once I'd positioned my fingertips on the movement keys for example, I still can't shift just one finger over to hit a different key; I'd have to pick my whole hand up and move my forearm over. I've tried forcing myself to play that way in the hope I'd get used to it, but it proved absolutely impossible for any game that requires quick reponses, and screamingly painful at best even for games like Civilization where I can take my time. I use a PS3 controller because it's the most comfortable for my small hands; the 360 controller appears to have been designed for a gigantic ape, or maybe Rachael Ray.

[Calamachus]

Or by making a game you as a developer feel was what you wanted it to be, rather than just what is popular at the moment. Such an attitude can be seen in smaller developers and publishers like Paradox Interactive, who are best known for the grand strategy niche of PC-only gaming, but spread into many other genres as well as publishing multiple other developers' games like Sword of the Stars (Kerberos), Magicka (Arrowhead), and Salem (Seatribe - literally a two-man developer). They may not be raking in hundreds of millions of dollars each year, but they also are not forking over hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing at the expense of making better games.

 

Well, we are starting to see some developers kick against the DRM flooding now, too. inXile is planning to make Wasteland 2 completely DRM free, beyond a Steam-accessible closed beta period.

 

Don't count on it anytime soon, both Sony and Microsoft have said they are not expecting to put out a new console anytime this year, and it's not looking too good for next year either. Of course, they (or at least Sony for certain) are also trying to figure out ways to push their "no used games" bit and not lose a huge chunk of their customer base because of it.

 

I'm a huge fan of small publishers and buy their stuff whenever I find something I even moderately like. The problem though is the huge undertakings, like Skyrim. Could you have made something more true to form with the open world games like Daggerfall, Ultima VII, Fallout and the like? Yes, but certainly not with everything voiced, motion capture animation and all the nifty high-cost bonuses. You're not going to get Max von Sydow to do any of your voice acting. What is that tradeoff worth? Good question. I'd pay $60 for a game with less impressive graphics (those are the easiest thing to improve with mods anyway), some less professional voice acting (I'd even be happy with some Morrowind-style most communication in text and only a few things voiced content) and a crap ton more plot and story depth with a wider range of options. Could you do that for < $10 million? < $2 million? Would I be happy with a $60 game with only Morrowind graphics today? Ugh, that's a hard call. It's also a nearly impossible sell for getting investment capital. I want too though. Mount & Blade, ARMA II, these are some great examples of PC niche games that have become reasonably successful and largely based on the modding community.

 

Wasteland 2 looks like it's going to be awesome. How many games like that have come out recently though?

 

DRM, second-hand game sales, that sort of stuff is one of those 'stupid human behavior' business factors. Do they legitimately impact sales numbers? No. Not really. They stick in the craw for a product creator though. The moment someone with an MBA or CPA sees some metric detailing 'fraud loss' (relative value of pirated/stolen product) or something detailing the value of second-hand game sales that they don't see a penny of and they will start working on a business case for some product, new business model or process change to try and recoup that mythical lost revenue. "This new DRM will cost us $250,000 to implement and $4 per unit but will increase total sales revenue by $2 million! It's a great business investment!" Then when it fails and you try to say 'The revenue was never there. It's a secondary residual, unless we sell our own games second hand we're never going to see any of it regardless. Pirated content does not equate directly or really even indirectly to lost sales' the response you get is 'It is too lost revenue, I have metrics to prove it! With CHARTS!' It will always feel like it's money they are being screwed out of. Beyond that most people who make something, games or otherwise, would rather a unit never even get sold than let someone steal it. It's a point of pride.

 

That's never going to change. The moment you get more than 10 people in a business someone will have a job based on trying to get more money out of the same product.

[Halororor]

Let me start off by saying I pretty much love Steam for what it is and what it does, and as of last week my Steam account is valued at just under $2000, so take this from where it comes.

 

My biggest gripe with Steam is the fact that it's a rigid, all-or-nothing affair. Either something works, or it doesn't. There is no leeway and no alternatives. Take as an example, if your internet connection suddenly dies. You are then forced into using offline mode, which is fine, but offline mode rarely, if ever, works as it should. More often than not you're going to end up being stuck being unable to play your games until you regain connection. All this because of the archaic manner in which Steam's offline mode works. Even Origin does it better. I have never had any issues launching Origin in offline mode when a connection is available, but lately, Steam only works 1/10 times if my connection dies off.

 

Another example is the archaic way Steam handles updates. On Origin, while busy downloading DLC files, I could still play my game in the meantime. On Steam, however, you have to wait for it finish the download before you can play again. Even something like an OST, which is not in the least bit required for the game to run, will have to finish downloading before you can play again.

 

That's the issue with Steam. When it works, it works well. When it doesn't work, it doesn't work at all. It isn't designed with user convenience in mind. Valve doesn't give a hoot if your loss of internet connection leads to you being unable to access any of your games, as the issue has been present for years now and has yet to be fixed. Steam is anything but user-friendly.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a godsend for PC gaming and probably one of the factors that prevented PC gaming from disappearing entirely, but it seriously needs to sort out its issues. If even EA's platform is outperforming you, you know there's something wrong.

[PsxMeUP]

You know what would reduce piracy? Bigger games. Make games on 3-4 DVDs. I'm sure most of us can spare 12-16 GB of HDD space, but I'd never wait 2 days to download anything. Screw that - paid or free. And I doubt the extra few cents it costs developers to include a couple more DVDs will hurt their bottom dollar. I remember back in the day some PSX games were on 4-5 CDs. It didn't stop me from playing them. In fact, I loved games that came on multiple CDs. It made me feel like I was getting my money's worth. I think once bluray gets more popular, and they start making games on them, piracy will drop and Steam will go through some hard times until home bandwidth catches up with the times. Edited April 11, 2012 by PsxMeUP

[Overcast73]

Valve doesn't give a hoot if your loss of internet connection leads to you being unable to access any of your games, as the issue has been present for years now and has yet to be fixed. Steam is anything but user-friendly.

 

 

That may be true - but I care and I'm the one who's willing to pay for games - they need me (or users in general in any event), I don't need them :)

 

Bethesda has some really awesome games, I wish they would drop the Steam 'requirement' and just make it an option. You know what you be real awesome is maybe if you could order direct from the company and somehow pay for an additional membership that could provide 'membership' No-CD/DRM removal features - see, I'd be willing to even pay a bit more for that. Hell, serialize the copies so you know who gave it out - I don't care, I just want user friendly gaming on the PC.

 

Not because I want to share the games, but because I don't have to fish for a DVD or worry about scratches, I wouldn't have to worry about OS re-loads with that game, and all that jazz.

 

I guess Steam is ok and all, it's just this 'piracy paranoia' bleeds through and impacts those who do pay. If nothing else, I like the box art and all that.

 

Last week, I was looking in my basement for my drill - I found two big boxes of old (like late 80's early 90's) game boxes, manuals and disks - from Floppy to CD. Looks like 'Maniac Mansion' goes for $160.00 on E-Bay - see, keeping that crap isn't all that bad :)

I have a ton more too.

 

Even the original Half-life box, lol

Edited April 11, 2012 by Overcast73

[Shantih]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that Steam ruined Skyrim since the game exists on several platforms and that would be the real limiting factor (as it has been pointed out).

 

However it's fair to say that Steam doesn't prevent piracy. In fact unlike us pirates don't even have to deal with Steam in the first place so they don't have to worry about an update breaking their games. Piracy is bad (no argument here) but it's crazy when companies enforce solutions that make it harder for players who've paid for the games to enjoy them (especially for the players who like most of us on the Nexus enjoy mods).

 

The thing about Steam is that it forces an update when going online and as a result it has to be kept offline just to prevent that. I also don't like the fact that I have to keep Steam running at all time. If I turn it off then it means I have to log on before I can play again which means that I need an internet connection and that if there is an update my modded game is screwed.

 

I can understand that Steam can be really useful to players who play multiplayer games for its social network and its market and general ease of use or for players who can't install a patch but personally as a single player kind of guy I'd rather be using a good old DVD check. As much as it was annoying to switch between CDs and DVDs at times at least we didn't have to worry about unwanted patches breaking our games.

 

IMO Steam is a perfect tool for players who don't want to be bothered with manually patching their games, gamers who value convenience over the idea of having a say in what is going on in your game folder. I see it as a necessary evil in order to play FNV and Skyrim but if it were not for mods I'd say that IMO it would be better to use a console rather than running a Steam game on a PC.

[robcaduk]

I'll just keep this simple.

 

I've been playing games since I bought my Speccy 48k.

 

Bethesda games are my favourite games...although I own 100's of other games.

 

I had and still have an Amega, Nintendo, PS1, 2 & 3 and other handheld game devices.

 

Oblivion changed my life as a gamer - my favourite game ever.

 

I am a PC gamer (but like the PS3). Steam has always served me well and I have had some top deals from them.

 

I love Skyrim. I have no problems with Steam. It's all very easy...compared to the nightmare of PC gaming 20 years ago!

 

At the risk of sounding like an old man (54)...you lot ought to just enjoy the great experience the staff at Bethesda have created for you.

 

I think it is magical.

 

If you don't like the way the Elder Scrolls series is going, then say your piece and then leave the millions who enjoy it alone. Don't keep hanging around these forums.

 

I do love a great RPG. Fallout 3, Fallout NV and Skyrim are all I need.....

[azaltan]

@robcaduk

Well, a 54 year old fanboy with bad taste in role playing games. Sorry if I find it difficult to take your advice. Oh wait..

Edited April 13, 2012 by azaltan