kingbeast88 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Hmm I remember finding a tidbit on one of the Geck sites when I was looking up data on navmeshing that stated you want to keep the number of triangles in your Navmesh < or = 500 and that the plaza in Megaton was highest 450-ish. I don't think I've went over 400 for any of my personal mod edits I do believe one is 387 IIRC. I imagine for an interior cell you could probably go over that without issue in an .esm but for exterior cells in the world I'd probably try to simplify it to not go over that. I do recall in one of my mod merges I was working on that had a ton of navmesh edits that a White Glove from the Ultra Lux would always spawn inside the Goodsprings gas station and I could not track down any reason for him being there other than the navmesh edits I made. He wasn't placed there in the editor, he had no scripts or quest that could affect him or referenced him. I gave in and removed the mod that made the edits to cell in the merge to fix it. The Geck's auto detection or lack there of for exterior cell border boundaries has really made me loath navmeshing. I wish there was a way to click two triangles side by side on a boarder and manually make it appear. Obsidian really did a very lack luster job navmeshing IMOP I don't see how they got certain things to work without breaking. Anway best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mktavish Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Each time I test a new change, I start from scratch. I never load an old file. I included the big DLCs as masters, because I want to eventually navmesh those areas too. Left out Gun Runner's Arsenal, and the item pack DLCs, though. Don't include the DLC ... take it one master navmesh at a time. Ya if you are loading DLC before you create your file ... there is your problem. Only load FalloutNV.esm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I'm inclined to think kingbeast88 is on to something, but if you aren't using the DLCs yet, you may as well remove them for now, although I have my doubts that that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mktavish Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Hmmm ya ... the balance of those exterior cell blocks of 4096 x 4096 game units ...beinging limited to 500ish triangles & vertices each. Seems a probable cause of glitch ... since adding the verticle "Draw Cover" is most likely adding to that limit. Guess depends on where that master file edit is stored in the .esp ? Honestly I am going off of limited experience with Fo3 navmeshing ... it is possible Obsidian didn't use the "Balance tool" as often ... hence I would be skeptical in using it at all on the Obsidian navmeshes (exterior) I really have to go back to what EPDGaffney said in another thread about ... After you place a vertice ... hit "F" ... but first raise it above the z position if you dropped it to close to floor level ... Then also select it and rotate the camera zooming in. And get a good look at how the vertice to vertice with it's neighboring cell lines up. They can be off within reason ... but even 10ish game units is probably too much.Which is hard to see at a distance , and some angles ... so pan the angle also. And I second ... you should upload it so we can have a look at actual work ... instead of relying on your description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mktavish Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 And maybe avoid adding draw cover near cell navmesh boundaries ... IDK ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashgarbage666 Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Aah!! Sorry for the delayed response! I said I was going to upload the navmesh yesterday, and then yesterday decided to become crazy busy!! Hmm I remember finding a tidbit on one of the Geck sites when I was looking up data on navmeshing that stated you want to keep the number of triangles in your Navmesh < or = 500 and that the plaza in Megaton was highest 450-ish. I don't think I've went over 400 for any of my personal mod edits I do believe one is 387 IIRC. I imagine for an interior cell you could probably go over that without issue in an .esm but for exterior cells in the world I'd probably try to simplify it to not go over that. I do recall in one of my mod merges I was working on that had a ton of navmesh edits that a White Glove from the Ultra Lux would always spawn inside the Goodsprings gas station and I could not track down any reason for him being there other than the navmesh edits I made. He wasn't placed there in the editor, he had no scripts or quest that could affect him or referenced him. I gave in and removed the mod that made the edits to cell in the merge to fix it. The Geck's auto detection or lack there of for exterior cell border boundaries has really made me loath navmeshing. I wish there was a way to click two triangles side by side on a boarder and manually make it appear. Obsidian really did a very lack luster job navmeshing IMOP I don't see how they got certain things to work without breaking. Anway best of luck to you. After reading your post, I had a look at the triangle counts of the navmeshes I edited, and almost all of them are between 525 and 550! I'm gonna try to keep my expectations within realistic levels, but this may very well be the cause behind all this! I'll try merging unnecessary triangles together until I'm within a more reasonable poly count and see where that takes me! Thank you! :D Hmmm ya ... the balance of those exterior cell blocks of 4096 x 4096 game units ...beinging limited to 500ish triangles & vertices each. Seems a probable cause of glitch ... since adding the verticle "Draw Cover" is most likely adding to that limit. Guess depends on where that master file edit is stored in the .esp ? Honestly I am going off of limited experience with Fo3 navmeshing ... it is possible Obsidian didn't use the "Balance tool" as often ... hence I would be skeptical in using it at all on the Obsidian navmeshes (exterior) I really have to go back to what EPDGaffney said in another thread about ... After you place a vertice ... hit "F" ... but first raise it above the z position if you dropped it to close to floor level ... Then also select it and rotate the camera zooming in. And get a good look at how the vertice to vertice with it's neighboring cell lines up. They can be off within reason ... but even 10ish game units is probably too much.Which is hard to see at a distance , and some angles ... so pan the angle also. And I second ... you should upload it so we can have a look at actual work ... instead of relying on your description. I'm very meticulous when it comes to aligning border verts. A few years back, I learned my way around the Source Engine's "Hammer Editor" so I could make maps for TF2, and learned the hard way that any gaps in your level will likely bring about The Great Undoing. So now I'm really paranoid about that sort of thing. On average, my navmeshes are more accurately aligned than the vanilla ones. But still, this is really solid advice for anyone looking to work with navmeshes. As for the upload, that should be ready within a few short hours! I'll link to it from here once it's up! Edited March 24, 2018 by punchbattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mktavish Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 okies well thats good ... just have to mention it. Still though the draw cover could be of concern ? Adding to limits of AI drawing a path. Hence a detailed draw cover section ... should not have npc's pathing across it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashgarbage666 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) Aaand... done! https://ufile.io/wn079 EDIT: Huh. Guess the link is being stubborn. If the hyperlink isn't including the entire link, copying it manually into your address bar also works! There's the link! The download consists of two .esp files, and one very important file that is extremely good. The second .esp is the result of me reducing the triangle count of the areas I edited down below 500. Unfortunately, that turned out not to be the solution, but I included it anyways. I'm extremely grateful you guys are willing to take the time to help me and dig through my dumb mod. This glitch in particular has just been ...so strange and vague. And I imagine you might have a few questions once you've opened it up and poked around for a bit, so feel free to ask whatever. But don't feel like you need to spend too much time on this! I know this is already asking a lot. And again, thank you! Edited March 25, 2018 by punchbattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 So, no .esm file? How come? I'm going to have a look now anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) All I had time for was to start a new game, shoot the bottles with Sunny, end the tutorial, talk to Trudy to end that quest, find Cobb, kill Ringo, talk to Cobb, and tell him to start fighting the Goodsprings townspeople. I didn't see any problems with the navmesh, and everyone spawned correctly. Edit: Do you get this warning:https://prnt.sc/iw5kgi I have that in one place in my mod and never bothered fixing it. Everything works perfectly in the area where I get the error in my mod (for me, it's near Bonnie Springs; for you, this is of course near Goodsprings), or I'd have pursued it further. It says you've changed the doors, but I can't tell what you've done. The teleport settings are correct. Edit 2: Em...so, GECK just won't close your mod. It gave me 500 warnings fifteen minutes ago when I tried to quit, and it's still closing now (right, an eadh). Is this normal for you? Edited March 25, 2018 by EPDGaffney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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