Having trouble with a custom navmesh

[trashgarbage666]

So, no .esm file? How come? I'm going to have a look now anyhow.

 

All I had time for was to start a new game, shoot the bottles with Sunny, end the tutorial, talk to Trudy to end that quest, find Cobb, kill Ringo, talk to Cobb, and tell him to start fighting the Goodsprings townspeople. I didn't see any problems with the navmesh, and everyone spawned correctly.

 

Holy cr*p, I think we may have stumbled onto the solution!! For one reason or another, I just didn't think to convert what I was uploading. See, when I first created this thread, I was working on a navmesh that painted lots of areas as preferred pathing. Doing that caused lots of problems in general, and converting that .esp fixed most (but not all) of the problems I was having. Upon restarting the navmesh, I ditched the idea of forcing NPCs to look for roads to walk on, because it was more trouble than it was worth. However, I was continuing to convert instances of this new navmesh when I shouldn't have, which is what seems to be causing the problem! After reading your post, I rushed to make a new file and try it out. And sure enough, it worked perfectly fine!! :D

 

Do you get this warning:

https://prnt.sc/iw5kgi

 

I have that in one place in my mod and never bothered fixing it. Everything works perfectly in the area where I get the error in my mod (for me, it's near Bonnie Springs; for you, this is of course near Goodsprings), or I'd have pursued it further.

 

It says you've changed the doors, but I can't tell what you've done. The teleport settings are correct.

 

Edit 2: Em...so, GECK just won't close your mod. It gave me 500 warnings fifteen minutes ago when I tried to quit, and it's still closing now (right, an eadh). Is this normal for you?

 

No, I never get that warning! And I'm ...pretty sure I have warnings turned on! At the very least, I never turned them off.

 

The fact that GECK isn't closing is extremely worrisome. That's never happened to me! I hope it didn't break anything... Be sure to tell me how things turned out.

 

EDIT: By the way, I'm almost done responding to your message! Sorry it's taken me so long -- there was a lot to respond to!

Edited March 25, 2018 by punchbattle

[EPDGaffney]

Forgive me but I'm actually a little confused as to what you've discovered was the problem. Either way, I'm ecstatic that it's working at least.

 

If you're using PowerUp, the warnings should be on by default. If you ever get any warnings, they're (unfortunately) all on. I'd love to keep on just the scripting ones if I could, but that level of customisation doesn't exist to my knowledge.

 

I did muck about very slightly, so it's possible I did something without realising it. I think when I zoomed out I loaded too many navmeshes, as it said something about a 'leak' when it was trying to close (well, it said a lot of things about a leak, actually).

 

I've opened it again just now, and on closing it, it gives me these two:

https://prnt.sc/iw9plv

https://prnt.sc/iw9pqr

 

It gives me one about models and animations but I get those a lot, so I ignored them. And for the second time, it won't close. All I did was I opened it up, loaded the Goodsprings cell, displayed the navmesh, did a flood select, exited navmesh mode, and tried to close the GECK without saving the file. That was about ten minutes ago.

 

Could be a Windows 10 thing. This software is pure temperamental on Windows 10, as is the game itself. Windows 7 and older seems stable for everyone, but 10 varies a lot from one installation to the next. So does 8 if I'm not mistaken.

 

Sorry, that message is long, yeah. I have this problem where I do that. Hope you make it through all right.

[kingbeast88]

No I get the leak and not freed message on 7. It's only when exiting however, I don't think it's an issue since it doesn't appear as a warning when saving. Maybe loading less grid's at the same time would avoid it. Though it might just be from loading up lot's of different navmesh cells in one session. Never seem to cause issue when the saved .esp or .esm in game is loaded however.

 

Having a navmesh tri that have edges that touch but don't connect doesn't seem to cause an issue since they'll just path around the two touching tri's from what I gather when it's on a cell boundary anyway. When it's not on a cell boundary I believe as long as one isn't under the other it should still be fine.

 

The only thing I would probably make sure to do is if somehow the original navmesh form ID for let's say Goodsprings showed deleted in FNVedit, I'd take that ID and replace my newly edited navmesh's ID with the base one.

Edited March 25, 2018 by kingbeast88

[EPDGaffney]

Interesting. But with this plug-in? I'm trying to understand why OP doesn't get it but I do. And does your GECK ever freeze on closing? First time this has ever happened to me.

[kingbeast88]

Not relate to op's plugin but it does sometimes freeze on closing (after all warning pop up's), but I don't give it time to see if it will close on it's on to be fair either. Although I do use Geck Power up + NVSE + a 4GB patch on it. I just kill the process since I'm done using it and have already saved my plugin.

 

Though I definitely have never gotten 500 errors literally or figuratively maybe at most 20-ish but I tend to fix any errors I can track down. Some warnings only show when saving, some only on loading up the world/cell, & some I found only pop up when saving scripts etc etc. I think they also are supposed to output to a log somewhere but I never looked for it.

[trashgarbage666]

Forgive me but I'm actually a little confused as to what you've discovered was the problem. Either way, I'm ecstatic that it's working at least.

 

No worries! It was pretty hard to explain, so I half expected it might be confusing. Let me try and reword it.

 

Basically, I started this thread with a different navmesh and a different set of problems. It marked all major roads as a preferred path, which really messed up general NPC pathing. Converting that .esp into an .esm fixed some problems, but created others. So, midway through the thread, I started the navmesh over from scratch. The new navmesh had different, but equally as severe problems. It's the one you have now! Whenever I playtested the new navmesh, I would convert it into an .esm beforehand. However, when I uploaded it to send to you, I forgot to convert it into a .esm! So you played it as-is, and it was completely fine!

 

So, in the end, it was my own hubris that drove my first navmesh into an early grave. I was playing god to think I could change where NPCs preferred to walk. And to think, I̻͕̣ ̗͕ͅa̘̩̳̞̘̘l͉̲m̜͉̲͍̗os̻ṯ g͎̞̹̫͎ͅo͙̖̫ͅt͕̳̗̝̖̝̻ ̘̥͈̦̳ḁ̠͔̘̪̺w̘͙a͚̜̟̦͇̭̹̘̦y̼̼̼ w͚͇̻̞i̮̜̮̭̺̠̘̞̳̦̱̱̮̟̗̯̗̣t̼̻̻͚̰̟̯̞̻̹̟͙͙͓̹̩̗h͙̥̟̜̻̥͍̹ ̹̲̲͍̯̫͙̜̦̞ͅi̞̥̗̰͎̻̳̰̪̪͚̫ͅt̲̬͙̦͖͈.̟͖͈͚

 

If you're using PowerUp, the warnings should be on by default. If you ever get any warnings, they're (unfortunately) all on. I'd love to keep on just the scripting ones if I could, but that level of customisation doesn't exist to my knowledge.

 

I did muck about very slightly, so it's possible I did something without realising it. I think when I zoomed out I loaded too many navmeshes, as it said something about a 'leak' when it was trying to close (well, it said a lot of things about a leak, actually).

 

I've opened it again just now, and on closing it, it gives me these two:

https://prnt.sc/iw9plv

https://prnt.sc/iw9pqr

 

It gives me one about models and animations but I get those a lot, so I ignored them. And for the second time, it won't close. All I did was I opened it up, loaded the Goodsprings cell, displayed the navmesh, did a flood select, exited navmesh mode, and tried to close the GECK without saving the file. That was about ten minutes ago.

 

Could be a Windows 10 thing. This software is pure temperamental on Windows 10, as is the game itself. Windows 7 and older seems stable for everyone, but 10 varies a lot from one installation to the next. So does 8 if I'm not mistaken.

 

I actually don't use PowerUp! I remember you mentioning it to me once before, but I was hesitant to download it midway through a project.

 

I've never seen errors like those. Can't help but wonder if my mod isn't playing nice with PowerUp for some reason.

 

And does your GECK ever freeze on closing? First time this has ever happened to me.

 

This actually happens to me every time I close GECK!

 

Sorry, that message is long, yeah. I have this problem where I do that. Hope you make it through all right.

 

Oh, pshh. There's no problem whatsoever! I thought it was great, and I'm having fun responding to it! :D

[EPDGaffney]

Right, so. To clarify, first, I got a load of errors, 500 being a gross exaggeration of what maybe amounted to ten or twenty. No idea, as I kept clicking Yes to All, assuming they would, as usual, be utterly useless. When I tried again and was ready for it, I didn't get nearly as many, but I had opened only the one cell in the render window. I think it gave me a handful of errors per displayed navmesh when I got the errors the first time, adding up to 20 or so.

 

So, OP is not using PowerUp, and that explains why she (she, yeah?) didn't get any error messages -- they're not in the GECK until you add PowerUp. No pressure, but it should have no effect on your project to start using it. Your choice, though. Every once in a while, it'll say something useful that isn't scripting-related, but it's mostly just a nuisance outside of that, so if you won't be scripting for a bit, maybe you should wait anyway. The other thing it's useful for is turning off that spell-checker.

 

Speaking of which, I know you do navmesh work, kingbeast, and this is a navmesh file, so I kind of think the GECK is basically not built for handling navmeshes properly if they're larger than what you'd have expected for a game from 1996, which is what the leaks and not closing are about. I've never seen any of this stuff before, and my navmesh work has always been what I would call fairly minimalist. How this relates to the spell-checker is why I say 1996: the spell-checker uses Win95 as an example word, because like many parts of this CK, it was made in 1996 and barely touched since.

 

So, in the end, it was my own hubris that drove my first navmesh into an early grave. I was playing god to think I could change where NPCs preferred to walk. And to think, I̻͕̣ ̗͕ͅa̘̩̳̞̘̘l͉̲m̜͉̲͍̗os̻ṯ g͎̞̹̫͎ͅo͙̖̫ͅt͕̳̗̝̖̝̻ ̘̥͈̦̳ḁ̠͔̘̪̺w̘͙a͚̜̟̦͇̭̹̘̦y̼̼̼ w͚͇̻̞i̮̜̮̭̺̠̘̞̳̦̱̱̮̟̗̯̗̣t̼̻̻͚̰̟̯̞̻̹̟͙͙͓̹̩̗h͙̥̟̜̻̥͍̹ ̹̲̲͍̯̫͙̜̦̞ͅi̞̥̗̰͎̻̳̰̪̪͚̫ͅt̲̬͙̦͖͈.̟͖͈͚

 

 

 

That is basically the best thing I've ever read on this forum, and A+ for presentation.

 

 

I've never seen errors like those. Can't help but wonder if my mod isn't playing nice with PowerUp for some reason.

Haha, you only think that because you haven't used PowerUp. The vanilla game, especially the DLCs, is full of these errors. That's why I said the warnings are mostly useless. You can turn off the errors, though. It's just, the better part of why I even use PU is the scripting warnings, and you can't turn off only some of the errors. I should clarify that your mod always has these errors, and it's just that PowerUp is reporting them and the regular GECK isn't. Some of them may always be present for Goodsprings as well and have nothing to do with your mod. But the GECK freezing when it closes is probably related to that leak.

 

Oh, pshh. There's no problem whatsoever! I thought it was great, and I'm having fun responding to it! :D

Careful now, you may not be saying that once you have another one to read.

 

So, are we saying that your file works as an .esp, not an .esm, even though we know that .esp navmeshes are bugged and using an .esm is the solution to that? That's really weird.

[trashgarbage666]

I... thought I responded to this, but I guess not??

 

the spell-checker uses Win95 as an example word, because like many parts of this CK, it was made in 1996 and barely touched since.

 

You know, I had actually suspected this. When I opened GECK for the first time, I started thinking about the Morrowind Creation Kit for "some reason". I'm looking at screenshots of the Morrowind CK right now, and it's just uncanny. They aren't even hiding the fact that it's basically the same software from 20 years ago! This is simultaneously so funny and so very, very upsetting.

 

and that explains why she (she, yeah?)

 

Yeah!

 

 

That is basically the best thing I've ever read on this forum, and A+ for presentation.

 

Ahaha, I'm glad someone finds my nonsense amusing.

 

So, are we saying that your file works as an .esp, not an .esm, even though we know that .esp navmeshes are bugged and using an .esm is the solution to that? That's really weird.

 

It is weird, but that seems to be the case! For now, keeping the triangle count low, and running it as an .esp seems to be working fine!! :D

Edited March 29, 2018 by punchbattle

[EPDGaffney]

Yes, most of the problems I have with the GECK stem from not being optimised or even capable of the standard functionality expected of software intended to work on a 21st-century game. The software isn't all that much older than my graphics card was when people on Steam told me I should inflict self-harm for having it. My take-away here is that bullying is wrong. Actually, let me start again. My take-away here is that Bethesda are bullying their customers in exploiting their monopoly on...no, actually, that wasn't it, either. (I have legitimately forgotten what I was writing. We'll move on, so.)

 

How are you keeping the triangle count low? Are you using separate pieces that are close together or just being more careful about where you add your verts? I'm a little afraid that this problem will come back, but let me know how you do.

[Mktavish]

Hmmm hmmm did you not look at the navmesh on that file (goodsprings) the triangles are large ?

 

Navmesh is an artwork ... and I would have to say ... you have that flare punchbattle :wink: