What, specifically, is the problem with belt-fed animations.

[jkruse05]

Just out of curiosity I'd like to hear from someone that really knows what they're talking about. In pretty much every instance that someone mentions belt-fed weapons it is said that animations are next to impossible, I'm simply curious what makes them so. Is it the lack of moving parts on "magazine" meshes? Can the belt itself not be animated when firing? I just want to understand the issue in more than a vague way.

[hitman47101]

To make something move like a magazine or a bolt we need to stick it on a bone, there's a limited number of these we can use from the skeleton and we'd need more then we have to properly animate a belt fed weapon due to all the moving parts, each individual bullet and so on.

 

However its not really impossible, there's other ways to do it, primarily a skinned mesh (look to the Junk Jet for an example of this in a weapon), or a self contained animation in the nif or just straight up adding more bones to the skeleton. Its just no one has done it yet because its a lot of work and they're pain in the ass to animate in general, I know I did a PKM back in New Vegas. That said I know of at least one that's sort of in the works at the moment.

 

Hope that helps.

[jkruse05]

Ah, right, I hadn't considered the bone issue. I assume you'd need several additional ones just for the belt to flop around while loading, though having them shake while firing could probably be embedded in the magazine/box mesh.

[ehtyeci]

The skeleton accomodates 5 bones parented to the main magazine bone, which is arguably enough for a conservative beltfed animation. That said, I've never gotten to the point of trying them out myself, but they're there.

I don't believe there is a framework in place for switching animations. Someone needs to make a fast and reliable ammo counting script to facilitate the switching of animations on the last few rounds. Apart from the belt cycling animation, from the moment the last cartridge of the belt is visible on screen and until it is fired, every round needs to be individually animated.

[hitman47101]

I don't believe there is a framework in place for switching animations. Someone needs to make a fast and reliable ammo counting script to facilitate the switching of animations on the last few rounds. Apart from the belt cycling animation, from the moment the last cartridge of the belt is visible on screen and until it is fired, every round needs to be individually animated.

 

Swapping anims on the fly will likely never be fast enough for something like that, currently we can't swap an anim out without the fast equip anim playing to "redraw" the weapon model and reload the anims. However in New Vegas it was done by simply swapping the mat/textures on the last few bullets to a null/empty texture set via script based on ammo count, making them appear invisible, just a matter of if the script can be fast enough to keep up during full auto fire, that wasn't a problem in FNV but a lot has changed and scripts in F4 can be seriously delayed if a lot is happening at once.

[jkruse05]

And then an animation for reloading a partial belt. Yeah, I can see why nobody wants to mess with it.

[jkruse05]

So, this topic is a bit old, but I thought of a partial solution while looking for references for a new 'Assault Rifle' magazine. Why not model the magazines with a brass catcher shaped attachment that covers all of the external rounds except the first few?

You go from needing a reload animation using (probably) 5 bones for the ammo belt, several textures swaps to be scripted and triggered while the gun is firing the last few rounds, and an animation for the belt shaking while firing, to just needing a reload animation with 3-4 bones on the first few rounds of the belt, and one texture swap for reloading an empty magazine/belt.

 

Players still get the classic reload, they just don't get to watch external rounds shake about as they fire.

Anyway, I'm planning to make a canvas 'magazine' for the 'Assault Rifle' that will have an appearance kinda like that, just thought it might work elsewhere.

Edited April 23, 2018 by jkruse05

[ehtyeci]

It would solve the fire animation, but if the belt is exposed during the detatch stage of the reload, we'd still need a script to determine how many rounds were left when the reload was initiated because we would be able to see them. The assault rifle wouldn't have this issue since the feed is on the side and relatively concealed (and we could just say that whatever rounds are left in the magazine just drop back into it so we can't see them), but for an open feed like the M60 it would still pose a problem.

[jkruse05]

If you want to be 100%, perfectly accurate yes, but even AAA games tend to do a two state check for that. There are either enough rounds to reach the magazine left, or no rounds left (during the reload animation. They tend to let you see the belt disappear for the last few, but if there are any still in the gun, even just one, the belt is full again when the reload starts). Hell, Fallout 4 doesn't even go that far with it's regular mag-fed weapons. The magazine either has rounds in at all times, or is permanently empty.

[ehtyeci]

Fallout 4 doesn't even have rounds showing during reloads with the drum magazines, which always annoyed me because the reload animation feels like player only reseats an empty magazine.

I think there can be some compromise where we can see a few rounds hanging out as the player puts in a full mag, and for the detatch stage just cull the child bones to hide the rounds.